Ep. 115: Interior Designer Elena Frampton
Interior designer and art consultant Elena Frampton grew up in Southern California drawing floor plans and going to open houses. Sensitive and introverted as a child, her rebellious adolescence belied her unwillingness to conform to others’ expectations and may or may not have involved a stolen convertible. Now, as a professional interior designer and art advisor she operates as a sort of conduit between both worlds, creating aspirational spaces and placing art within them. Just don’t box her in!
Elena Frampton: I’ve learned through the process of sort of mingling in both design and art worlds that I’m sort of this sensitive conduit between these two worlds.
Amy Devers: Hey everyone, I’m Amy Devers and this is Clever. Today I'm talking to interior designer Elena Frampton. Elena grew up on the west coast, went to school in the southwest and now operates her studio, Frampton Co, out of New York. In addition to expressive, bold, and highly personalized interior architecture and design, art advising is a big part of what she does. And as you’ll hear in our delightful conversation, nothing feels more fulfilling than finding the right home for a work of art. Here’s Elena.
EF: I’m Elena Frampton, I’m the founder and principal designer of Frampton Co. We’re a 12 person design team and we also have a unique in-house art advisory division. So, I am based here in New York City and also have a satellite on Long Island in Bridgehampton and we also own a gallery called Exhibition, and that showcases our creative and curatorial visions.
EF: I am at the core a idea person and I am driven by expressing myself creatively. And I’m also sort of battling against the notion of designer as shopper and I’m looking to propel designer as creator.
AD: +Nice, so we’re gonna get into designer as creator when we get into your professional trajectory, but first I wanna know about young Elena and how you found your creative leanings. Can you take us all the way back to your childhood? So I understand you were born and raised in Southern California?
EF: I was. I was born in Pasadena, which is about 10 miles north east of downtown Los Angeles. And I grew up in a modern house and my bedroom had 18 foot ceilings and a skylight [laughs]. And I sort of credit that space as sort of an awakening into like architecture and design and that’s where I was brought up.
AD: With 18 foot ceilings in your bedroom you’re imagination had room to soar. Did school feel like a tiny box?
EF: I mean school felt like, it did, except for the school I went to, you know, Southern California had these like indoor/outdoor schools. So I would say the classroom felt like a box and you know, and it’s funny you say that because I’m, my thing now is, I always say, ‘don’t box me in.’ [Laughter] Like in every context, I don’t wanna be boxed in. But I would say yeah, school, school and growing up, I always felt a little different.
I was sensitive and creative and probably mature and I think, you know, I always express interest in, you know, going on house tours or going to museums at a very young age. And I’d say, you know, my parents would say, you now, she’s, she’s very unique, which I always interpreted as like sort of different [laughs].
AD: It’s so funny, kids interpret things in their own way and that could also mean like she’s, she’s our weird child [laughter]. Or she’s our special child, you know -
EF: Yes, yes.
AD: Depending on your… So you had both parents?
EF: I think just both parents and you know, my, they, they both noticed the interest and just sort of did what they could to foster it. So, I mean I was very young, I would go with my mom to the grocery store and we would buy like floor plan books. I mean we’re talking at like five or six years old. So she would get, she would buy me these floor plan magazines that you would buy at like the checkout counter at the grocery store.
And then she would buy me graph paper and I would, I just sort of taught myself to draw floor plans at like five or six years old. And then my dad actually, he and I would do like our Saturday father/daughter activities and he would take me, actually to open houses.
AD: Oh wow.
EF: So he would like pull out the listings for you know, the Pasadena neighborhood and I would get to pick the houses that I wanted to go into and he and I would have the whole charade about how we were looking to buy a house [laughs].
AD: That’s so fun.
EF: Yeah.
AD: It’s kind of like elaborate out in the real world make believe, but you’re also getting in a window into all this architecture, but a window into how people live.
EF: Exactly, at a very young age and so my mom, my mom still loves telling the story of how elaborate these floor plans were. And that you know, I would just do hundreds of them and say, look how the fountain is centered on the door. So it was, it was just a, you know, a unique situation. Very different [laughs].
AD: I have a question about being sensitive as a child. Did your parents teach you how to be okay with that or did you feel like you had to, like you were constantly under pressure to toughen up or?
EF: I think I was under, I would think I was under pressure to be more extroverted and I think, you know, growing up we weren’t as therapized as we are now. I think I was quiet and observant and I think that there was pressure to be more extroverted, to be more talkative and to be more of an outward person. And that’s just something that through age I sort of navigated, but I don’t think the sensitivity thing was ever discussed.
Certainly the shyness was a thing and it’s sort of funny now because I’m, I do a lot of public speaking now, so it’s sort of ironic how, the trajectory of it all, but I don’t know that anybody talked about the sensitivity thing. I just know from reflection that that, I was just like very aware and observant of people and sort of their way of being and how it affects their behavior and their relationship to space.
AD: Hmm, hmm-mm, well, I mean that’s a huge part of being a designer, is kind of understanding how space affects mood, feeling, energy, but also understanding how people respond to things and why and being sensitive to that. You know, I’m glad nobody told you, oh, you’re too sensitive so that you might have felt like you had to turn that down within yourself, which of course, you and I know isn’t possible, it’s not like it’s a knob that you can [laughs] like dial down. Sensitivity is just something you can learn to work with.
EF: And I think that’s what it was. I think it was learning to work with it and also sort of being, and again, this comes through age and just life experience, but you know, if you, if you look back at even like the movies of that time, it was like the artistic kids were sort of the oddballs. And I think, I never even really fit into the artistic circle, in a way.
So I think it was like that, that youth and teen angst was, definitely shaped my empathy for people and my patience for people. And mostly for myself in that I’d give myself space to, you know, to be the person that I am and the creative that I am.
AD: Oh, that’s so interesting because I was gonna ask you about that. I mean sensitives frequently have kind of really turbulent teenage years, just because, all their peers are going through raging hormones and they’re feeling that as well as their own raging hormones, pretty deeply. And so it can be, just a very, very confusing time, for any teenager, but I think particularly a sensitive one. How did you, how did you learn to carve out space for yourself and how did you even learn to give yourself permission for that?
EF: I mean I think that’s a great question. I think that from the ages of say like 12 to 17 was the time of, honestly, like a lot of rebellion. And that probably goes back into like not wanting to be boxed in, of expectations for what I’m supposed to do or who I’m supposed to be. And also never really fitting into any pocket at school. Like I was friends with the homecoming queen, I was friends with the kid who was smoking cigarettes in the parking lot, right? So like I never fit into any group, but I got along with everybody.
AD: Yeah, that’s me too.
EF: And so I just sort of, I just sort of made it through and I think probably it’s that vision of, I always figured I would end up somewhere more interesting than, and it’s so funny now because I love going back to Southern California, but growing up there I just thought, this feels a little surface to me, but I know that when I get out of here I’ll end up somewhere that’s the right fit. And so that sort of hope was like a guiding light, for me and I just, just make it through now and you’ll get to where you’re supposed to be.
AD: Your rebellion, was it mostly rebelling against, let’s say the stereotypes at school? Was it rebelling against rules at home? Did you have a lot -
EF: I mean I think all of the above. Yeah, I mean my parents were, I would say probably on the stricter side, so it was rebelling against that. I think I probably, you know, joined my friend in stealing her parent’s car and taking off in the convertible until someone caught us. I definitely -
AD: That feels so California rebel -
EF: Yes [laughs]. I think it was every, in every which way that I could, I did. And also in school, I mean anything math or science related where I would, you know, just sort of blank out, then I focused on, you know, the ceramics class or any, in any which way that I could, I would rebel and if it was I was supposed to do something, I would definitely not wanna do it. And that was, that, I would say 12 to 17, also known as ‘not my parents favorite years,’ you know, they’re just so grateful that it all worked out [laughter]. I’d say yeah, 12-17 was a time of rebellion and stretching those boundaries and then like sort of circling around in a funny way.
AD: And kicking down any walls to any boxes that people tried to build you into -
EF: Exactly, exactly!
AD: How was your creativity showing up? Were you still drawing floor plans and going to open houses or were you like -
EF: I was, yeah.
AD: Cutting your hair and dyeing it?
EF: I never, yeah, I never did the hair, but I definitely probably through clothing, expressed myself, I would say, you know, my mother and my grandmother, my late grandmother were, my mom’s extremely stylish, my grandmother was extremely stylish. They were always put together. They would probably try on five outfits before they went out. So then what I did in those years was, you know, I tore my jeans, I painted on my jeans, I colored them. I put, you know, which is now very stylish, wearing like a tunic over pants.
I would do that and mortify my mom; like a dress is a dress and pants are pants. Like in any which way that I could express myself, I would. And then certainly in, through school, as many art classes as I could take, I also took like Saturday classes at ArtCenter, which is a college, they allowed high school students to take classes. So I think those were the areas that I could sort of feel most comfortable.
AD: I love that you took classes at ArtCenter because I think for so many people it’s really helpful to get a window into all the different ways that your creativity could become a profession. I don’t think as children we’re taught enough about where our products come from, where, who designs things, houses, cities. So we don’t really understand what to do with all this creative energy and so many parents are afraid that it’s, we’re gonna end up starving artists.
EF: Right.
AD: That they don’t necessarily funnel you toward that, but taking those classes at ArtCenter, I’m sure kind of opened your eyes to all the different possibilities?
EF: It was hugely influential. I mean I can still smell the scent of the automotive models being crafted because they have a huge automotive design program and a product design program. But I think that those classes were, again, it was that guiding light. You know, that extraordinary building, you know, I think I was 14 or 15 years old and so my mom would have to take me every week and driving up the winding road and then driving under that, you know, modern glass and steel structure, I just, I couldn’t believe it.
That experience was just extraordinary. And so to be there was that guiding light of okay, you know, maybe I’ll come here after high school or I’ll find some other design school, but it definitely put together to your point that there, this could be a job. And around that same time actually I also took an internship with the local design and contracting firm where, this is back in the day of the blue prints with that ammonia smell [laughs]. Where at 15 I was like running blue prints for like a local office.
AD: Oh, your mom was like, all those layout books totally paid off [laughs].
EF: Yes, exactly! Exactly! [Laughs]
AD: So how did you decide to venture to Arizona State University for college and how did you pick your major?
EF: So I knew, I knew the major was going to be interior design. I had always, actually when I was maybe 12 or 13 I thought I wanted to be an architect and then as I, you know, went through high school and took classes at Art Center, it was clear I was very interior focused. So I knew my major would be interior design and just at that time, I think, I don’t know, I was 17 and I was researching schools and ASU had a great program.
They also, at the time, had a five year program, which just to me seemed delightful because it was like more time before having to face the real world. And so, and they had amazing facilities. So that’s the thing about, you know, sort of a newer West Coast or western school, like the facilities are very modern and it just, it seemed like a shiny place to start out.
AD: Yeah and I mean I can see why a five year program is appealing, especially if you’re, it sounds like you’re kind of a lifelong learner and that the idea of continuing to learn as much as you can in a setting that’s like built for it is paradise, to me.
EF: I mean I, I cried at graduation -
AD: No.
EF: Not, not tears of joy but tears of like, don’t make me leave. I cried for like three days, I did not want to leave. I loved my college experience and I still, there’s two professors I still keep in touch with. And every time I send out like a business newsletter, I get an email from them.
And it’s such a special kind of connection and touchstone for me. In fact, you know, because Arizona State’s in, you know, the desert, whenever I have a moment where I need to, you know, take a step back and reassess or have refresh time or think about my past and like where am I going in life and what am I doing and what’s my purpose, I go to the desert. And I think that it’s from that, I think that because that college experience was so, you know, such a pivotal time for me.
AD: There’s something about the desert too that’s sort of like the dry ocean, it’s so vast that it puts everything into perspective and the sky just, that starry sky just absorbs all the stupid stuff and you’re left with only the meaningful thoughts [laughs].
EF: It’s true, it’s very true and there’s sort of something about the ruggedness and sort of, it’s like, it’s kind of, it’s raw, it’s beautiful, it’s kind of dangerous, it’s kind of scary, it’s kind of rough, it’s just sort of like everything that life is, is all wrapped up into the desert. Whereas you know, I live part time by the ocean and I love the beach and it is a beautiful thing, but it’s also, it’s very peaceful. And I find the desert to be, that’s the place where I can really go to the core and be honest about you know, who I am and what I wanna do and what feels right to me and maybe get in touch with the gut instincts, which can so often be clouded by all kinds of stuff.
AD: Oh yeah, they just get scrambled and covered over by the day-to-day and other people’s issues and you know, complications and you know, politics and all of that stuff. So I’m sorry that leaving college was such a traumatic experience for you [laughter] but you seem like you’ve done pretty well for yourself [laughter]. Can you tell me like how did you rebound from having -
EF: How did I recover?
AD: Yeah, how did you recover and how did you get your footing in the professional world?
EF: Right, exactly. Well, I would say that I, fortunately, I prepared myself for that. So this is, this is sort of the key element to how I operate and that’s like this element of preparedness. So I actually did three internships before I graduated and so I think that that sort of set me apart when looking for a job. And it also just sort of informed me as to what I would like and maybe what would be the better fit for me. You know, I worked at larger firms, smaller firms, more architectural firms, more decorative firms, you know I, I tried different things.
And so I was, I had the insight as to what would be kind of the right steps for me and so I ended up making some intentional choices based on those like college internships. And so while I was sad [laughs] -
AD: You did the appetizer platter, so you knew what you liked and what you didn’t like. That’s such a crucial piece of advice, I think, to people in school, is it’s not so much about finding, I mean a lot of it is about finding what you do like, but everything that you learn about what you don’t like is equally important.
EF: It is really important and I also think, you know, I could have made more money, if I had gotten jobs doing other things, to be honest, during those college years. And so it wasn’t necessarily the easiest choice, because you know, like one of the internships didn’t even pay at that time. I don’t think, do people do that anymore? But at that time one of the internships didn’t pay. So I could have made more money if I worked in a retail store, if I waited tables and I sort of, the other theme is sort of playing the long game.
I was sort of playing the long game and I thought, this is gonna help me later on. And so I did kind of, I think it was a financial sort of compromise, but it did turn out to be like valuable information.
AD: Did you learn some survival skills during that too? I guess there is some benefit to having to scrimp financially and that you kind of get really resourceful.
EF: Absolutely! And, and also I had my eye on New York City, which from a Southern California kid seemed pretty scary to be honest [laughs]. I mean it’s, it seemed pretty, pretty, like a daunting situation. I did, my last internship was in New York City and so I think that that really painted a clear picture. And I had to be resourceful and, you know, I, I couldn’t afford an apartment or even my own room.
I think I subletted, like someone’s dining room that was open to their living room [laughs] on Bleecker Street in this crazy situation. So yeah, I mean I think all of that sets you up for how to navigate certain things and how to compete. I mean one of the things I, I saw right away was at this internship, there were three other students, all from sort of fancier schools, let’s say.
And it, it did seem, I mean looking back, there was like a very much a reality TV show competition between like the interns and, and that was also very intimidating. I just, I was like the kid from out west, you know, I had big eyes and there’s that shy part again. Like I was probably quiet and it didn’t, it didn’t look good at the beginning of the summer, right? [Laughs]
But ultimately it showed me that while the other interns might have been more extroverted and colorful, that ultimately by the end of the summer I was the one that the principle offered back because I, you know, worked the hardest, I worked the latest. I would stay into the evening and it, it definitely shaped, again, it was like another guiding light of like, okay, I get it. I may not have that, but I know what I do have and I know what I can offer.
AD: You know, I think that internship period is so important to separate the flash from the solidness. Not that flash is bad. There are a lot of ways in which charisma just really greases the tracks and opens doors, but if it’s not backed up with a solid work ethic, then it can start to feel kind of, I don’t know, just like chaos, just like a layer of noise. So you proved yourself in that internship and then did you stay in New York?
EF: Well, so I had another year of school, so I went back there during winter break and worked and then I ended up, when I graduated, I had a few options and I took another job. And so I moved to New York in the summer right after graduation.
AD: And what was that job?
EF: That job was working with the designer, Clodagh.
AD: Oh, yes and how long did you do that and what did you learn from that experience that you’ve taken with you into your own professional -
EF: So, I worked with her for about five and a half, almost six years. I started out as, you know, the recent college grad, like junior designer, do everything. And what I learned really was about sort of instinct and experience and three dimensionality of space. And not focusing necessarily on what we call now, like drawing board design. Like forget about the alignments, forget about everything being perfect.
What does the space feel like? and that was really like the core lesson from my time there. I also just learned how to navigate, working with a team and how to you know, like the reality of manifesting something, you know, taking something from like an idea and having it be constructed. And sort of like all the pitfalls that are possible [laughs] in that process.
AD: There’s a lot of moving parts and there are a lot of people that have to show up and be on their A game to make it happen and then there’s also just the very real, real organic nature of construction. Like if you’re gonna renovate something, you’re never gonna find what you think you’re gonna find in demolition. And things just don’t go according to plan in any area of life, definitely not construction. So did you learn a kind of agility, a way to sort of make decisions on the fly?
EF: I think it was a combination of like just brass tacks, like this is how construction documents are really prepared. And this is how oversight in the field is really done. And absolutely the idea of making decisions in the field and this came up and so how are we going to do that. I mean that just never, that’s not really something that you encounter in school. You have an idea, you build a model, you do the drawings, you maybe do a rendering and here’s your idea.
And it’s all about that and sort of; I think the, the realities of actually you know, the actual construction realities were just mind blowing. And I would also combine it with all the life, the life stuff too that’s all happening at the same time. I mean my first day at Clodagh, I had just moved here from living in, going to school in Arizona, I’m a Southern California kid and I’m moving to New York and the streets are crazy and everybody is driving fast and it’s just this whole thing.
And my first day at work they said, “Oh, you’re gonna drive Clodagh to midtown and take her to a job site.”
AD: Oh my gosh.
EF: I mean, can you imagine, your first day of work as a, like a post-college, I mean I couldn’t even believe it and I, so they, they said, you’re from California; you have a driver’s license, right? So, I mean how to navigate something like that was as big as learning how to draw millwork detail, right? Because it’s all happening at the same time.
AD: And you can’t kill your boss [laughter].
EF: Well, that’s it too; I was like, what if I hurt this lady? I mean this is really bad or what if I, you know, crash the car, I mean driving in New York City on like your first day of work?
AD: Yeah, I mean that’s intense. I’ve driven in New York City before and I’m still, I still pinch myself that I didn’t like back over any pedestrians or [laughter] cause any accidents. But let me ask you a kind of personal question. How did you, I mean New York can be kind of overwhelming for a sensitive person. Did you also have to figure out how to manage that? But also, I mean how do you not get boxed in cause as a young professional, the option to live there is only tiny boxes.
EF: I had a tiny box apartment and I think, and I’m quoting someone else and I don’t know who said it, but this ultimately what you realize is that the city is your apartment.
AD: Yeah.
EF: And the apartment is like the place for the basic functions, but that the city really became like a greater extension of the sense of home and especially that, you know, in my 20s and you know, finally being away from home and having that space to, you know, it’s like you don’t even have to be rebellious anymore because you just have the air to be yourself. I just, I remember walking down 5th Avenue and there’s this guy wearing a chicken suit.
And no one looked, no one turned, no one reacted and I still remember, I remember that like the first day having to drive Clodagh, it’s like I, I thought okay, I’m in the right place because it doesn’t, nothing matters. I can just find my way.
AD: Yeah, so connect the dots between Clodagh and your current practice? Did you go straight into founding your studio or did you have -
EF: So, I had a couple of steps in between. I went to work for the firm Tsao & McKown, which is a great, sophisticated architectural firm. And at the time I was there was maybe 45 people and there I, you know, learned really about design methodology and I learned about management and I was, became senior associate there and I learned sort of the workings of an office.
And you know, the idea of, you know, money has to come in [laughs] in order to operate the office and, and sort of, I just got sort of behind the curtain insight into more of like the workings of an office. And I knew, I knew from my time there that I really wanted to sort of explore having my own office. I certainly was very, again, battling that shy thing where I sort of felt like I couldn’t possibly have my own office because that requires being an extrovert.
And that requires you know, being very self-promoting, which did not come naturally to me. So my first step in that process was to form a business with a partner and have a sort of, you know, business partnership with someone who has those qualities. And so I was more, like the creative person and really coming up with ideas and she definitely you know, it was more of like a people person, I would describe.
And so that was sort of like the interim step before realizing that actually my creative voice is so strong that I have to get over these hurdles. That I’m really the only one putting in my own, I’m putting them in my own way and, and get through that and figure, like the result of being able to express myself creatively will be worth getting past my own stuff.
AD: Oh, well we’ve got to get into that. Your own stuff, that’s what everybody is trying to do [laughter]. First, you have to be self-aware enough to know that you’re getting in your own way.
EF: Right, and I think that that self-awareness comes through with like being that sort of sensitive observant creative person. And also being like more of an introvert, like I have the ability to be self-aware and to look at, also, like what do I wanna do, how do I wanna spend my time and what does that look like? And I think through, I really felt a strong sense of, I wanted to, before I became more expressive about myself, I wanted to make sure I knew what I was saying.
So I did focus many years on learning the craft, learning the business, working for other people, having a great business partnership and I’m still friends with her to this day. And I did all of those things, such that when I finally decided to launch my firm, I could feel confident that I have, I’m at a place where I can build a portfolio. I have relationships from working and living in New York for so long, from you know, clients to trade professionals, to just like the extended design community.
I felt very supported and I just had to, yeah, break through, break through whatever it was that was holding me back, which might have been like maybe, being too humble in a way and not really stepping up to what it is that I have to offer.
AD: Yeah, you know, there is a, that’s a very mature and hard place to get to, to recognize that your own humility is not serving you and to actually value your creative output enough to know that it needs to be served by maybe you being a little bit more outwardly promotional or celebratory of your own self. Which yeah, a lot of times, as female self-promotion doesn’t always come easy.
And to know that that’s the thing, that’s the hurdle that you need to get over or embrace in order for your creative side to be able to fully take flight is really a powerful recognition on your part. And it sounds like you’ve, maybe it’s still a struggle, but you’re working with it?
EF: Well, I think it hasn’t been natural, but it’s been an evolution, for sure, because once I saw that, once I realized what is, what is necessary in order to obtain the commissions that I wanna work on, what is necessary in order to attract the talent that I want to be a part of my team, like what is it going to take? Once I started really digging deep and asking those questions, then I realized that I have to sort of, you know, I’ve always sort of been about the work and the process of design and I talk a lot about the process of design, certainly in our social media.
But really I realized that I had to surrender to the necessity of the brand image. I needed to put more photographs of myself in the world and it’s not at all natural for me. I would way rather talk about a creative idea that we’re expressing than like what dress I’m wearing, right? [Laughs] But people like to connect with the personality and so when I realized that that was sort of necessary, I just started doing it. And I think for me Instagram has been sort of the most comfortable vehicle for that because we can certainly express our sort of design strategies on the home page.
And I can do that thing that I feel comfortable doing, but then in the stories I can almost be casual and journal-like, because it’s just so temporary. And so I think that that for me has been the most comfortable way for me to sort of reveal myself.
AD: Well, I wanna just give you a high-five for revealing yourself in the form of this conversation. I’ve found, for me, that podcasting is the way that I feel really comfortable, being able to create a platform in which we get to talk about you and the things that shape you and drive you and not just your last project is very meaningful to me. Because I feel like I get to know you and if I’m getting to know you, then I know the listeners are getting to know you too, which I think just adds so much depth.
Not only to your work, but to the way we can look at the built world around us because we can start to connect it to all the humans who have been involved in making it. So thank you for sharing your story with us.
EF: Absolutely.
AD: And I’m interested, you mentioned your process and how you share some of that on Instagram. Can you kind of walk us through what your creative process looks like and if you want, feel free to use an actual project as kind of a template to break it down for us?
EF: Well, sure, I mean I think what I’m always trying to do is express that there, first and foremost is a process. And I think that a lot of times we’re sort of romanced by these finished images of completed projects. And it’s wonderful and I get on board with that too, but I always wanna contextualize it in that, you know, it starts so long before that finished photo. And really it comes in with the meeting of the client and who is the client.
And I think one of the things about interior design is that certainly we can all design our own homes, but I think where the real sort of dynamic energy comes in is when you are designing for someone else. And I think that sets apart, like a true designer, is someone who is designing for someone else because that dynamic with the client is so complex and rich and full of, like major, major joys that I cannot even express how happy I have these moments and then also like very difficult moments.
And so I think it starts in that first meeting. That first meeting with a potential client and you know, when I meet with someone I immediately have visions of color palettes. I immediately have visions of works of art. I have a whole sort of mysterious instinctual thing that goes on in like minutes. And I just carry that with me. And then there’s a whole process of, you know, you do a proposal, you pitch for the job, some you get, some you don’t and that’s a whole other emotional sort of you know, potentially turbulent process because you know, when you lose a job, the agony for the idea that never manifested, right?
And then when you get the job, how exciting. How do you proceed with that and so for us it’s definitely like we study concepts and ideas and we pull everything from architectural finishes to decorative finishes to artworks, materials, colors, we’re working intensely on drawings. I do hand sketching but my team is all on the computer [laughs]. And we pull something together and really the bulk of the effort is done in the first like six to eight weeks of a project.
AD: What goes on in that initial client meeting where you’re getting those mysterious intuitive messages [laughter], I mean I totally get it, but I also wonder what kinds of information they’re sharing with you and what kinds of questions you’re asking in order to really open up that intuition. Because so much of this is so personal, you have to externalize their personality into their space, but you also kind of have to help them aspire to be the best version of their personality.
EF: Exactly and so I think, so there’s two-fold, there’s two directions for that, oh, this is so exciting. There’s two directions for that because some of it is said and some of it is unsaid, right? So a lot of what’s going through my mind is not necessarily, because of something that’s spoken. It is that I would describe, like cosmic, intangible kind of mystical thing that I cannot explain to you. I don’t know how that happens but I will, you know, how I see visions of color palettes, like that, even as I say it, it sounds a little strange.
But that’s real and I don’t know where that comes from, that’s just like a part of me and what happens. But certainly I ask a lot of questions that are not the basic questions. And I also just get to know people as people. And you know, I ask like about childhood nostalgia and you know, there’s always like a weird color story. You know, I grew up with a green room and I can never look at the color green or I grew up and I had an eight foot ceiling and I can never have that ever again.
Or, I don’t know, people, I do ask about people’s childhood experiences with space because I do think it informs their decisions later on, pretty significantly, particularly in couple situations where you have to navigate that. It usually come from like a childhood situation.
AD: I believe that 100%.
EF: [Laughs] And so that would be like a residential client. On the other side maybe for like a commercial client, we recently designed a restaurant and that project is a little bit different because it’s less, it’s less about that really, really intimate stuff, but it is somewhat about, like the restauranteur and what she’s about and what she’s seeking to achieve. And then there’s also the business’sy stuff of, you know, what is this neighborhood lacking that this restaurant would bring, you know, to this clientele. And how does the food relate to this?
So I think it sort of depends if it’s a residential project or a commercial project. Either way, there is, I would say, like the heart of the project comes within the first 10 days of me meeting with the person or visiting the job site. And then it’s my job to work with my team to have that manifest into like an actual design vision that can be constructed.
AD: Yeah, so how do you get those intuitive flashes out of your brain and onto [laughter], like how do you communicate them to somebody who wasn’t privy [laughter]?
EF: Well, there’s a couple, I mean there’s the actual brass tacks that they’re asking for, right? I want a dining table that seats this many people or I want a restaurant that seats this many people or I wanna feel the outside inside. So they’ll ask for some very specific things and so it’s kind of, you know, there’s a little bit of a sales component to communicating design vision. And it’s that balance and it’s what you mentioned before about the aspirational qualities.
Like I always want to express that I’m meeting their very clear objectives and then show how we’re sort of transcending those basic programmatic elements. And so I think it’s the way in which I talk about, you know, as long as the goals are met, everything else is sort of icing and I think it’s also showing them a different way of looking at space.
I mean I think that’s one of the values of a professional designer is that we just look at things in such a different way and we see that like 5th option that no one else will see. And I’ve gone to many meetings where there’s a lot of people around the table and they’re all looking you know, at that box [laughs] and I am not in there. I look at something in a completely different way.
And so I think often that is a delight to people. And then the other stuff, I find people to feel, they’ll feel safer with some adventurous solutions, if I’ve also said we can meet the budget, we can meet the timeline, this is how the team approached the code issues or this is how the team approached the, you know, lighting issues or whatever. If you have, in my experience, the more you have those pragmatic things down, the more open they’re willing to listen to you on the sort of, you know, adventurous ideas.
AD: That makes so much sense, because you have to kind of calm their nerves or else they’re not even going to be able to hear what’s so transcendent about the exciting parts.
EF: Exactly.
AD: Yeah, so art consulting, and advising is a big part of your service offering and original art is such an other worldly, like spiritual addition to a space. I’m excited to hear about how you’ve developed that and what’s involved in that part of your business?
EF: It’s really, it’s really become such a special part of not only my business but also you know, it’s really impacted my life as well. And I think that that element of my practice has come again in a sort of natural way over time where, you know, I, 10 years ago I would pull art images and use them as inspirations for projects and I would include them on the concept boards.
And then clients would say, but I actually like that, I actually want that, can I actually buy that? And so I saw it as a service that I could provide my clients who were never gonna go into a gallery. Who were never gonna, you know, cold call a gallery and ask for a price. I saw it as a service I could provide to them. I saw it as a way for me to like expand my business [laughs] with doing something that I really enjoy.
And it just sort of evolved over time and I’ve learned through the process of sort of mingling in both design and art worlds that I’m sort of this sensitive conduit between these two worlds and particularly the art world can have like an air of exclusivity around it. And it just, that never got in the way for me [laughs]. I mean I was just always so excited by art and by artists and by artistry that I just, you know, sort of broke through some conventional barriers to make it happen.
AD: And I’m sure it feeds your soul to be sort of constantly consuming original art and artists and knowing, not only what’s out there, like you have to keep your finger on the pulse, but that you get to, as part of your job is to consume art [laughs], which is so nourishing.
EF: It is, it really, it really does feed the soul and it really, it truly brings me tremendous joy. And I think, you know, ultimately I’ve now been practicing design for 23 years and I think there came a point where I felt, you know, I’m so client services driven, I’m so wanting my clients to be happy that ultimately I sort of felt like I was just, I don’t know, I felt like there was so much management involved. That I needed more. I needed more to feel really good about what I was doing every day.
And I think that that’s what art did for me. It made me feel creatively fulfilled; I’m constantly meeting new artists. I’m constantly finding art works and it’s not necessarily young, emerging artists. It could be a mid-career artist who is just not known and I think that it just, it checked a lot of boxes for me in terms of you know, making me feel really, you know, happy about what I was doing, but also it, like the artwork that we’re bringing into our projects gives such an energy to our work and it helps our work maintain this unique flavor.
You know, I don’t necessarily want the regular, the regular cast of characters that most architects and designers are specifying on their job. I want to have my own voice and so I think that having the art advisory element in our practice just you know, certainly feeds my soul, but also, like, really lends a lot to the projects.
AD: Does it feel also meaningful in that when you place a work of art, you’re kind of like, what’s the right metaphor here? It’s sort of like you’re, you’re helping, you’re matchmaking in a way. You’re helping the artwork not only find the right space to live in, but find a good home with owners who will appreciate it and it’s a conduit of these connections that’s almost like you know, adopting a child.
EF: When I place a work, I feel so much of those things. I feel, it is, it’s almost like it renders me speechless because I feel happiness on so many levels. I feel that I’ve done something for the artist. I feel that I’ve done something for the people who now own it. Because I know, you know, it’s beyond me. It has a whole other life of its own, but I set it into motion and I made it happen. And it, you know, I, I don’t have children. I have projects and I have artwork and that is what I feel that I am fostering into the world.
And so it’s almost like to your point, it’s almost like when that artwork is placed and the client is in love, it’s, it’s just, it’s amazing.
AD: Oh, and yeah, I feel the joy coming through the microphone and I can sense it too. I mean it’s a win for everyone, but it’s also transcendent in that you know that work is gonna continue, like their relationship with that work is just beginning. And the artist who created it really, you know, put a lot of their soul into it, so it needs to go to a good home where that relationship can be something that has room to grow and develop and oh, you get to be the steward of that connection. It’s amazing! [Laughter]
So you already shared with us one of your major hurdles, which is getting out of your own way in terms of maybe being a little too humble to do self-promotion properly. What is the one thing that the universe is trying to teach you right now? Like what’s the current hurdle, that area of growth that you’re up against in the moment?
EF: Yeah, I mean I think it’s something that I noticed as a teenager. And I finally feel that I’m figuring out and that is that I’m not really accepting the prescription that our culture provided, at least me as a young woman. And it’s the idea of, like creating my own way. Carving my own path, identifying that and not sort of checking all the boxes that I was told I was supposed to check.
And so I think that’s sort of like the last hurdle for me, is feeling, you know, really at peace with the choices that I’m making and sort of this evolution into the kind of woman that I’m becoming.
AD: Well, that’s really, that’s really well said and also something that at some point we all have to give ourself permission to be ourselves. And that happens at various stages in life. I mean in your teenage years, you kind of had to rebel and now you’re a professional woman, you kind of have to operate within a system, but you kind of have to carve your own way too. And I don’t know where I’m going with this; I’m just sort of feeling the same thing. Like at what point am I gonna be okay with all the choices that I have made because I [laughs] make the other ones, honestly.
EF: Yeah, I just, I feel it on a pretty regular basis in different circles that you know, a lot of people want you to be a certain way or do a certain thing or they ask the questions. And I think it’s a really exciting time to be in now where women don’t have to necessarily follow any trajectory. We don’t have to check off boxes to make you feel better. We can be our fully realized selves and that may look different than you know, other people.
And so I think that that idea of you know, really owning who you are and carving your own path and also creating it. It’s not about what’s given to you, it’s about making things happen that you want. I think that’s another element of it. And I think that that’s something that I see a lot actually and I’m also always kind of identifying, when I’m at a fork in the road, it’s like, okay, what do I want and how do I make that happen? I’m not gonna be satisfied with just what’s being delivered to me.
AD: That’s powerful. So let’s play that forward. If you were on a magic carpet ride and you’ve got the steering wheel, where would you like to see your life go in the next 40 years, let’s give it a big -
EF: Forty!!! [Laughs]
AD: Yeah.
EF: I just said to someone last week, I said, listen, I’m gonna be into my 90s with like my hair pulled back in a chignon with big earrings and like red lipstick and I will still be wearing, you know, big glasses and creating and making and drawing. Like this is not stopping. This is just gonna keep on going. That was like with regards to our website design or something and I went into this whole thing.
Yeah, I mean I think for me, I’m interested in creating something that’s beyond me and my firm, you know? I’m interested in connecting these art and design experiences and I have some visions for something that I wanna build and create and that will kind of live on beyond me. I can’t reveal too much because it’s actually like a real thing in my head. [Laughs]
AD: Okay, well definitely what can you reveal about a new or recent project that we can look up and learn about?
EF: Absolutely! Well, I’m really excited about an initiative we just launched in January which is called Salon Series. And this is a live conversation program that we’re hosting in our studio, up in our gallery space called Exhibition and we’re doing it about once a month. And I’m inviting different creatives to come and have conversations and we are recording it [laughs]. And it’s really, you know, the old world salon and bringing that into our day.
I just, you know, I wanna have, you know, like this conversation with you, I mean I just think it’s so interesting to have context for the work that people are creating. And it’s a great way for me to connect and you know, sort of expand our creative community.
AD: Yes and I feel like, I hear from so many creatives who are, they feel a little bit isolated in their studios and when you output, output, output all day long, you really need a lot of connective tissue in order to strengthen the mesh of the ecosystem that you’re a part of. And so -
EF: And it’s so strange because we’re sort of like hypothetically more connected, but I think we’re like very disconnected and we’re also spending so much more time alone. So I think, like the idea behind Salon Series is that you know, we are together in a space and it’s not different from like, you know, grabbing a drink at the bar or having like a dinner table discussion. It’s like really getting into the heart of the matter and you know, I think a lot of people look at art and design work as, I like it, I don’t like it, I like it, I don’t like it.
And it’s almost like a little too flippant for me and I feel like I wanna understanding people and why they’re making certain things and where they’re coming from. And I want other people to understand that too. And it’s actually exciting. We’ve had a couple already and we’ve had, I mean we have clients come who are, you know, in, you know, law or finance and this has completely jazzed up their world.
And we have emerging artists come and they wanna have a voice and it’s been really exciting.
AD: Oh, I love that; hopefully I can come to one of them when I’m in New York. I’d love to [laughter], I’d love to be there. Where, you said you’re recording it, so are you also like releasing it on social media or?
EF: We are, we’re figuring all that out right now, but at the moment the past two are on our website, www.framptonco.com. And we have, it’s on the Exhibition page and so we are doing a full audio recording of it and then we’re also doing four or five minute video clips of highlights, just so people can get a sense for the people that we invite.
AD: I love it! Thank you so much for sharing your story and for placing artwork, I feel like that truly is heavenly. [Laughter] And I’m glad there’s, somebody with good intentions, who is doing it not just to make money but to actually not that economics aren’t a part of it, but it is a very personal and profound thing to find the right home for artwork, so, I love it.
EF: Thank you so much.
AD: Thanks for listening. To see images of Elena’s work and read the show notes, click the link in the details at this podcast on your podcast app or go to cleverpodcast.com where you can also subscribe to our newsletter. And if you would, please rate and review And do us a favor and rate and review, it really does help us out. We also love chatting with you on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, you can find us at Clever Podcast and you can find me at Amy Devers. Clever is produced by 2VDE Media with editing by Rich Stroffolino and music by El Ten Eleven. Clever is proudly distributed by Design Milk.
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What is your earliest memory?
Artist Sally Mann challenges the notion of memories and the myths of photographs. My first memories are of raucous fiestas with my Mexican grandparents—but maybe it was just the photos I remember? I also remember at age 5 riding my bike all the time and creating different make believe “worlds” on our cul-de-sac street.
The desert garden at the Huntington Library in Pasadena, California
How do you feel about democratic design?
It depends on how you define design. Is design merely a product, or is it a way of being, a way of experiencing and creating spaces? Whether it’s about the expense or accessibility of design, a thoughtful approach to our built environment is invaluable. That responsibility falls on many shoulders.
What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?
My parents have always encouraged me to take risks. It might seem trite but this has really guided my choices. I’m in an ongoing state of looking to my gut and taking risks—with my business and how I’ve grown it, and even with certain design decisions. Our clients gain confidence in adventurous ideas through my conviction. It’s that ‘risk’ that sets apart the design of their spaces and keeps them coming back for more when they have new spaces to design or are growing their art collections.
How do you record your ideas?
When I’m at my desk or in meetings with my team, I’m scribbling away on multiple legal pads. Love a felt-tipped pen, in a bright color of course. iPhone notes are great for when I’m on the go. I document everything. Especially when I’m seeing art, I like to make notes about which project I instinctively see it placed in or which client I know right away would gravitate toward it.
What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?
I’m very excited by integrating custom commissions into our projects—the more adventurous and all-encompassing, the better. Finding and collaborating with unique artist voices, like Elise Ferguson in our Florida Estate project.
What book is on your nightstand?
My curiosity gets the best of me and I’m usually reading several books at once. I’m a John Irving fan—his stories always contain captivating worlds within worlds. I also recently got into - wait for it - mystery novels. They provide me with complete detachment, which is really helpful in stress management.
Why is authenticity in design important?
The built, designed environment reflects energy. Its authenticity or inauthenticity is evident. Often, it’s an intangible feeling. We hear this a lot from our clients, they’ll say, “I don’t know how to describe it, but it feels good.” That’s authenticity. You can sense the love and care of a space and it affects your experience.
Favorite restaurant in your city?
Rosie’s in Amagansett. The local Bhumi Farms supplies the produce and its service runs day to night, so it's perfect for a breakfast meeting or dinner with friends. It’s also the first restaurant we designed!
What might we find on your desk right now?
Crystals from a recent trip to Taos, and a book on artist Jeanne Silverthorne. I also have scale rulers and 6 pen containers separated by type and color—I like options.
Who do you look up to and why?
People who can make a living doing what they love. We spend so much of our time at ‘work,’ yet it’s quite a feat to connect all the dots of work flow: cash flow – people flow. Entrepreneurs are inherently creative and I’m drawn to and inspired by those that flourish by doing what ignites their inner passion.
What’s your favorite project that you’ve done and why?
Exhibition Penthouse, located in the Flatiron studio. Photo by Joshua McHugh
Photo by Joshua McHugh
Our own studio! Last summer we moved into a larger office in Flatiron (we also have a studio in Bridgehampton). We made space for Exhibition: our curated installation of art and design works. The studio is filled with light, our team shares meals at a familial farmhouse table in the kitchen, and it wouldn’t be truly “Frampton Co” without tons of art throughout.
Beyond that, my favorite projects are usually the most recent ones. We just completed a Brooklyn Townhouse for longtime clients. It really strikes the balance of comfortable and curated.
The Brooklyn Townhouse. Photo by Joshua McHugh
What are the last five songs you listened to?
This Must Be the Place by Sure Sure
Rich Girl by Lake Street Dive Supplier by Kari Faux
Swingin’ Party by Kindness
Huarache Lights by Hot Chip
Clever is produced by 2VDE Media. Thanks to Rich Stroffolino for editing this episode.
Music in this episode courtesy of El Ten Eleven—hear more on Bandcamp.
Shoutout to Jenny Rask for designing the Clever logo.
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