Ep. 114: Clever Extra - Wall Power: Uplift Our Spaces, Uplift Our Spirits
In this special Clever extra we teamed up with Paintzen to talk wall power. Walls are the backdrops of all our spaces. They are in the prime position to set the vibe and ambiance of our lives. Paint and wallpaper have the power to transform, brighten, warm, refresh, and personalize a space. Two experts help break down the style and execution of wall treatments, Casey DeBois, Interior Designer and Meghan Stewart, color consultant, with inspiration, trends, how-to and services that will make it easy and fun.
Casey DeBois: You think about how someone experiences a space and as they walk through the entryway and if that’s something that’s more bold and interesting, how then does the hallway translate to the dining room and the living room and kind of how, it kind of all has a nice balance.
Amy Devers: Hi everyone, I’m Amy Devers. In this special Clever extra We are talking about wall power. Walls are the backdrops of all our spaces. They need to function structurally, yes. But they also are in the prime position to set the tone, ambience and vibe of our lives. That’s a hefty job. Given that we’ve all been spending a lot of time inside lately, many of us are aching to refresh or redesign our surroundings. It’s a direct relationship: uplift our spaces, uplift our spirits. So today we’re talking about wall treatments and the power of paint and wallpaper to transform, brighten, warm, refresh, clean, personalize and punctuate a space. I’ve brought in 2 experts to help break down the style and execution of wall treatments. So let’s start rolling.
CDB: My name is Casey DeBois, I’m an interior designer. We’re based in New York and we do projects near and far. We do a bit, it’s a bit of a mix of residential and commercial projects and it always varies a bit. Sometimes it’s a little more in the heavier, on the residential side and not so much on the commercial, but it’s a nice blend. We have an office in Gramercy and I live in Chelsea and I enjoy doing this because it’s something I really love.
Meghan Stewart: My name is Meghan Stewart and I work for Paintzen. I lead our inbound sales and trading partnership division of the company, which helps customers and trade partners alike turn their projects into reality, providing them with a seamless customer experience through technology expertise that enables us to provide a white glove service and a high quality paint job to our customers. And that covers everything from quoting, scheduling, color expertise and full execution. We do what we do because we wanna be able to bring a revolutionary service to our customers. There’s no one really in this space doing this right now and we wanna make painting attainable for everyone and making sure that we’re giving back people’s time by providing solution that is a quick, one stop shop that provides everything they need and a beautiful paint job along with it.
AD: Wow, well, I love Paint for Everyone because I am a firm believer that paint and wallpaper and wall treatments in general absolutely impact your environment, which then impacts your sense of joy and wellbeing. It can make you feel small and stifled or it can make you feel expansive and creative. And I think that we all can utilize our inner designer to make sure that our environment helps support us, be the best people we can be in the world. And Casey, I know that you design for a living, as an interior designer, this is your expertise. Where in the process, when you’re conceptualizing a space, where does wall treatment land?
CDB: These opportunities bring like joy to the space. So with wall coverings and wall treatments, it’s usually one of the like earlier stages of the design process. You want to select all the elements in this space to kind of tell a story. With that said, in complete redesigns, it’s the first thing we do off the bat, as it kind of sets the palette and helps with deciding room –by-room, how the spaces go together.
And then sometimes an existing space, as we’re working with a client, or if they’re just refreshing a space, we would then bring in papers to complement what’s already there. But I think it’s one of the very first initial things that we want to bring into the design process.
AD: So it sort of kicks off everything else that kind of comes into this space, is sort of anchored by what you’re deciding to do with the walls.
CDB: Exactly.
AD: What kinds of choices have you made for various types of spaces? I mean we know that paint and wallpaper can really make a difference in terms of maybe dividing up a cavernous space or making a really small space feel more bright. Can you give us some examples of some specific choices that you’ve made that have been really successful in certain kinds of spaces?
CDB: I think some spaces initially like for instance, entryways and powder rooms, you can go a bit more bold and in smaller spaces, wallpaper actually has the ability to make a space feel larger. And it definitely makes it feel more interesting. And in terms of design, it’s a highly effective way to kind of personalize the space. And with that there’s so many interesting wallpapers, that the possibilities are like kind of endless. So I think like those spaces are something that’s like a really interesting opportunity.
You kind of at the same time want the whole house to tell, you know, to kind of be, you think about how someone experiences a space and as they walk through the entryway and if that’s something that’s more bold and interesting, how then does the hallway translate to the dining room and the living room and kind of how, it kind of all has a nice balance.
AD: Yes and I’m particularly interested, you mentioned the personality, it needs to reflect the personality of the person who is going to be inhabiting the space. I think in so many ways, you know, we don’t have control over the architecture of our space. If we’re a renter or if we, you know, are fortunate enough to have like a brownstone in New York, it’s certainly not something we conceived of from the beginning and built for our own use.
So we’re adapting ourselves to an existing space and wall treatments can do so much to make that space feel like it’s yours. Like I live there, like my personality is in these walls. Do you have some examples from projects where you’ve really helped a client just express themselves?
CDB: Even sometimes in rentals we’re doing paint and wallpaper, just because if you’re gonna live there for several years, wallpaper in many ways is art in itself. So, it depends too, like most bedrooms I would say we want like a more calming, relaxing atmosphere. So we might do something with like a more textured wallpaper that’s not so busy. So like a grass cloth or something with a very simple pattern.
We’ve done bedrooms before where like the entryway into the master bedroom, like the hallway is like more of a toil but like an interesting color way where it’s not so traditional. It’s like a new age take on that. And then the bedroom itself has the grass cloth. So I think it’s all about transforming these spaces because it really does then create this warmth and this atmosphere that brings you more joy and happiness.
AD: Oh yeah, it makes all the difference. You wake up on the right side of the bed when you feel really good in your space. I also think it’s a pretty powerful, I also think it’s a pretty powerful tool to define and set off the architecture, particularly if you have molding or woodwork that really makes your place special or if the bones are something that need to be celebrated, you can do so, with just a simple contrast.
CDB: Totally and you can still, there’s so many options for wallpaper that there’s, you could, my favorite thing is to kind of mix wallpaper, like I’ve even gone as far as getting like hand printed papers off of, vintage papers off of like eBay and Etsy that no longer available, but they have like the amount of rolls that we need. But then we mix that with more modern furniture and it kind of has more of an eclectic mix.
AD: Oh, that sounds awesome [laughs]. So what kind of paint colors are you loving lately, in addition to these exciting wallpaper finds?
CDB: So, it’s funny because I feel like we go more bold with the wallpaper because I think we wanna love the paper and I think that’s more of a commitment and it doesn’t, when you love it, it’s not gonna age itself so ‘fastly,’ like so quickly, I guess. But with paint colors, we tend to do more neutrals, so like in larger spaces, I’m a big fan of many different shades of white, I think white paint has, there’s so many different shades of it and even in times we’ve had clients who have purchased new homes or have a kitchen with like an off white and they weren’t considering painting it but we were like, it would make a world of a difference to do like a brighter white.
And I think, so in terms of that, like the whites, I’m a big fan of, there’s nothing better than like a really crisp white trim or molding. And also too like shades of grey, whether it’s warm or cool greys, and then some more dramatic colors, like a dark navy or a black, which I still even like consider those colors, like all those colors neutrals.
AD: Yes and I think it also matters if your clients, or anyone, likes art on the walls, you definitely don’t wanna choose colors that are gonna compete with the art but maybe [0.10.00] that will set it off. Or if there are a lot of photographs going on, you wanna, you wanna work in a way that sort of sets off these decorative elements in a way that celebrates them as opposed to create something that makes you -
CDB: Like competition -
AD: Yeah, that tension, makes me so stressed -
CDB: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
AD: And Meghan, what are you seeing in terms of general trends from the customers, both your trade and consumers? Are you seeing colors that are popular? Are you seeing wallpaper make a comeback? What’s going on there?
CDB: Yeah, absolutely, I would echo Casey’s sentiment 100%. So our customers, both trading and consumers typically since I’ve been doing this for the past seven years with Paintzen, have always stuck with neutrals. You know, white, your grey-sures, your beige-sures, and your greys, you know, they like to have their walls be, you know, the foundation for everything else around it. You know, you have to complement the permanent fixtures, like appliances and flooring while also, like you were mentioning, competing with furniture and art and photographs.
So you know, really having that great blank canvas that’s so versatile if you do, you know, wanna change things up, get in throw pillows, you wanna make sure everything still works together. So where customers typically stick with neutrals, and then every now and then you’ll get a sprinkle of, you know, our darker green or a navy, especially on cabinets. You know, tuxedo cabinets of doing, you know, white on top, a darker color on the bottom. So that’s pretty much the extent of how crazy we’re seeing color being used these days.
But with wallpaper specifically, people are really taking, you know, I don’t wanna call it a risk, but they’re being more daring with it and I think that’s an excellent way to go right. You want to have this pop of something that it’s kind of surprising in a space. Especially powder rooms, we’ve even seen with our trade customers, utilizing a fun wallpaper on ceilings, walk-in closets, you know, really taking advantage of using grass cloths, you know, throughout a living room or a bedroom. So we do see our fair share of wallpaper requests, quite often, with our trade partners, almost every project also includes wallpaper of some sort. And our typical B2C customers are also using it quite frequently.
AD: That’s so fun, it’s such a beautiful way to bring in color, pattern and texture. There’s something about wallpaper that feels like a commitment. I don’t know where I’m going with this, this will get edited out, but it is, wallpaper is such a great way to bring in color, pattern and texture. I’m excited to see it come back.
MS: Oh yeah, it’s coming back, no doubt about that, yeah, and we have had some requests where you know, I’m like, ah, that’s an interesting paper, I don’t know where that’s going but once you install it, it’s really incredible how it would truly transform a room. It’s kind of like sometimes when you see clothes on the rack and you’re like, that looks awful and then you put it on and you’re like wow, that’s, I’m so glad I tried this on, this is gonna be amazing. So it really does transform a space and you can use it so many different ways. And I think people should really be taking advantage of that.
AD: So Meghan, I’m also curious to know, are you seeing certain behaviors, I mean because you’re in a position to be able to witness how people are using your service. Are people more inclined to do a short paint job, just to do a quick refresh? Are you seeing a lot of flipping out there? Are renters making use of a service like this in order to, like we talked about earlier, kind of move in, make this space their own, but still be able to turn it back to white on move out and get their deposit back? How are humans making use of paint and wallpaper in a behavioral kind of way?
MS: Yeah, absolutely, so our customers utilize us in you know, varying ways. So first, people who are buying homes, they want us in before they actually move in. Understandably so, right, there’s no furniture in the space, you know, we can move around as we please. You know, things go a little bit faster, so when people buy a home, they bought it, this is their actual homeowners, you know, they want to make it their own as quickly as possible. So with Paintzen we’re able to be so flexible with people’s timelines.
They close and they want us in there the next day, we’re in there and we’re taking care of everything for them. We know that moving and buying is such a stressful time in people’s lives, they have to coordinate so many different vendors, so many things to close on a house, right? And we’re here to just make all of that simple. You know, let us know what we need to do, we’ll give you that quote and we’re in there within 72 hours.
And we take care of all logistics. So a lot of owners like us to come in when they first purchase to make sure that we’re truly transforming their space. As for renters, you know, even though they’re not owning the space, they still have to live in it for however long their lease is and we see a lot of people using us to either paint a living room, paint the bedroom, you know, truly make it theirs. And when people are moving out and moving into a new space, they used a lot to then paint that space back to white, like you mentioned, to get their deposit back.
And then we’re in there painting their new space the next day, to make sure that everything is as seamless as possible because we have that flexibility. You know, we can be in one apartment one day and then we’re in another one the next day. And we’re helping out that customer on two separate apartments and things like that.
AD: You know, that just made me think of something, moving is so stressful and you may or may not be working with a designer to design your space before move in, but a lot of people really aren’t, they found the house that they like or the apartment that they like and they’re moving in, they want to get it painted to make it fresh before they move in, but maybe they don’t want to make all of the design choices just yet, until they’ve lived there for a little bit. But what if they’re scared to make color choices but they still wanna get it painted before they move in? Do you have relationships that you’re able to utilise to help people feel confident about what paint choices they’re making when they’re stressed and frantic about moving?
MS: Yeah, absolutely, so you know, we always look to our trade partners for advice and see what they’re doing and the color [spates?] to help out. But our team also has color consultants on staff that have been trained, so they’re able, we do everything remotely through our technology. So with just a few photos we can easily help people decide what color is best for them, we send them out swatches so they can see the colors in real time. They’re pretty big eight by eight swatches, so you can see those.
We provide PPG paint, so you know, we have that expertise and that capability to be able to really guide someone and to help them with a color choice, whether they want to go bold or whether they’re looking to find that perfect white, that looks great in all varying times of day and different kinds of spaces. But they’ve been trained to help customers with exactly that problem.
AD: So Casey, I wanna talk about the process with you. You’re designing spaces day in and day out for multiple clients. I know you work at the residential level but also at the commercial level, correct?
CDB: Yeah.
AD: So you’ve got a lot going on all the time. What are some of the pain points that you’ve seen frequently or that you’ve had to deal with and work through in terms of wall treatments, wallpaper installation or paint coordination and all of that?
CDB: I think on like the very primary level, it’s with clients, whether it’s commercial and residential, it’s just setting expectations and again, how Meghan just mentioned, like the samples very often when clients, when we’re showing samples we’ll show them physical samples, we’ll show them maybe photos of the paint color in a space. We also have probably a solid 20-30 colors that are kind of just our go-to that we know will work with certain lights. So it’s kind of just having expectations set there.
And also too just making, like if we’re using a grass cloth, getting bigger samples, making clients aware of scenes and what the full installation looks like, all kinds of wallpaper too, they send you a sample and it’s like four by four and like you don’t see the full pattern. So we want to make sure that they know what the finished project would look like, whether we Photoshop looks together, what-not.
And even too, there’s other little things, like making sure ceilings are even, because sometimes you have a wallpaper with a busier pattern and whereas like if the wall was painted you would have never known that there’s like a six inch drop from one corner to the other, the floors are uneven in an old building and the wallpaper then makes it look more noticeable.
So you know, there we might just use something that’s like a more, cut like custom mural or a stripe or that just might be a textured wall. And I think this, all in all then in the process of installation, we want someone, because a lot of these papers are a little bit complex, and they all need to be installed by a professional. So there’s like a process of managing the installers and making sure they’re aware of the installation requirements, the instructions and make sure they have all those details.
And then just, it’s hard to say because now we’ve used Paintzen for so long and we haven’t had so many issues. But I would say in the past like, you know, if we’re using a buildings contractor or someone that, the client knew, there’s just more hand holding and it’s a little bit harder to manage the project or if, you know, we show up and the painters don’t have the supplies they need [0.20.00] or the materials or they don’t have a tall enough ladder.
It kind of, you know, it slows down the timeline and there could be issues with not enough labor and it takes them longer to finish the project. So there’s just like lots of little hiccups that could happen along the way.
AD: Oh, and all those hiccups I mean it’s a domino effect for someone like you right, if something doesn’t go right on one job, it takes your attention away from focusing on another job. I’m sure if you’re using -
CDB: A 100%.
AD: If you have contractors that you have a good relationship with and you really rely on, you wanna be able to spread them out across your jobs, but then that requires managing their time as well as your own and it, it seems like -
CDB: Yeah, it can, yeah, 100%, a domino effect.
AD: Yeah and it seems like it could become a pretty -
CDB: Yeah, there’s like tighter timelines where you know, there’s certain, we have X amount of days to finish paint and wallpaper and then the furniture is coming. So if, you know, and we always give extra days but sometimes if there’s an issue or you know, they promised that they would finish in four days but we gave them six and they’re still not done, you know, then we run into problems.
AD: Right and I know from personal experience, but also from all the people that we’ve talked to on this podcast that like there are these ways that your job becomes more management than creativity.
CDB: 100%.
AD: And that takes the fun out of it and also puts a strain on the way that you’re able to develop and deliver really truly creative solutions to your clients. So Meghan, I mean Paintzen was developed specifically to kind of alleviate a lot of those problems, those pain points for designers and for consumers. How exactly does, do you work with people to smooth out those problems?
MS: Yeah, absolutely, so you know, Paintzen comes in for a numerous amount of ways, you know, to really help our trade partners and our customers. So first I’ll get into, recently our network contractors and how we work to source and you know, get the best of the best. So we have a large contractor network around country, Paintzen’s live in 11 markets throughout the US as of right now. All of those contractors are background checked, licenses are verified, they’re fully insured, they’re all interviewed.
They go through test projects with our operations team and our vendor operations team, where they’re reference checked to make sure that their work is absolutely a high standard for us. You know, we receive a lot of inbound interest to the platform and every single one of those is interviewed and taken for consideration to be on the platform because we have that breadth.
It only takes us 72 hours to actually begin a project once it’s booked. So we know how hard it is to find installers. You know, they’re a very rare breed, so gone are the days of scrambling to, you know, find one for your client’s project, finding a painter. You’re not meeting with five or six different contractors now to get different quotes, to get different proposals, to walk them through the job five or six different times to have different options.
We take care of that all for you, so Paintzen controls all of the pricing, all of the scheduling, all of the logistics, all of the paint ordering, the delivery, the project management, we’re a one stop shop to make sure that everything is done without taking any time away from our trade partners or our customers, that’s all on us. We personally schedule the contractors based upon skillset, availability and their location to a job.
And then our team, where we handle quoting is, we have an online tool they can go right online to our quote flow, we call it, and you can get a quote right there automatically for interior painting. But we also have a staff of, you know, six people on my team who are ready to help customers from beginning to end to put a quote together.
So we only need just a few details to get everything together for you and you’re getting a quote back immediately which includes the labor, the paint, the supplies, the tax, if applicable, you know, any kind of, any and all sundries that are needed to complete the work. It’s an all-inclusive hard quote. We don’t change our quotes when we get to the site.
So you don’t have to worry about walking a painter through a job and then when am I getting this quote back. It’s already in your in-box and not only that, we do quote up custom stuff. So even if it’s not automated through our systems just yet, you’re still getting that quote back within an hour, so you can have answers to your customers immediately about pricing and things like that.
Also, if you want to, you know have six different proposals, like I want t include walls in this, I want to include ceilings in this one, I want to do one with the wallpaper, we’re there and making those changes for you immediately, so you know you’re going to rapid fire responses from our team.
Not only that, we’re helping, like I mentioned earlier, with all of the paint selection right, so we provide PPG paint and if you want swatches, we’ll overnight them to you, you’ll have the next day. You don’t have to worry about estimating how much paint you need; our technology does that for you. And it’s delivered or picked up with the painters the day of the job, so you don’t have to worry about going to the paint store anymore.
As well as, making sure that you’re getting a fair quote. We’re using average labor rates and scopes of work to properly price out all of your projects. And also we’re able to accurately timeline how long this job is going to take, right? So you need to know how long is this job going to take if you have, like Casey mentioned, other installations, people are moving right? So we’re able to do that with our technology and say you know, it’s gonna take about four to five days and we’re gonna stick to that four to five days right?
So because our technology, we’re able to provide such insight into our projects for our customers that they know that they’re able to provide other accurate timelines to other vendors as well. And not only this, we also have full project management, so you don’t have to worry about, like I was mentioning, sourcing the contractor or having all of that communication, our project manager takes care of that all for you.
So that main point of contact, speaks to the crew beforehand, goes over the entire scope of work with them. Any logistics that need to be coordinated, they handle, any request you have during the project, you know, they’ll handle as well and speak with the crew. They’ll coordinate, if you wanna leave a lock box for them, little things that you never think of, they’re all there to be with you 24/7 and throughout the entire project as well.
And lastly we have our 100% satisfaction guarantee. If there is anything, in a rare case, that you’re not satisfied with, we come back free of charge to make sure you’re completely happy and our number one goal here is just complete customer satisfaction.
CDB: It’s really amazing, you’re telling stories and I’m just like, it’s, I mean I’m very thankful
MS: Oh thank you Casey.
AD: Yeah, no, Casey, how does it impact your business and your working relationships with your clients? It sounds to me like you can design to your hearts wildest dreams and then just quickly put numbers to what that might cost and then hand over the painting and the wall treatments to somebody else to deal with and you can focus on the rest of the stuff.
CDB: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what happens, like it’s such a great partnership and you have your account manager, there’s this open communication, all of their contractors are so lovely and so present and oftentimes I can request like the same teams that I’ve worked with. The contractors generally care too and get excited about the jobs, as excited as we are to have this wallpaper installed.
So they’re even keeping us updated, sending us photos, like for instance there was an issue a few weeks ago where we had these Schumacher rolls of like a herringbone grass cloth and there must have been, like in the way it was made, there was one string of a random color. Where normally I feel like another contractor would just hang it and then I would get there and be like, what’s that and they’d be like oh, it was in the paper.
But like the hanger called us and was like, I don’t know if you want us to do this roll or you like try to get a different one because it’s different than the rest. So it’s just like there’s a level of care and commu-; it’s super transparent and the willingness to come back when the roll came in, it saves us so much time. It’s just been a really, really great partnership.
MS: And I’d like to say too, we’re so thankful to be working with someone like Casey as well, you know. Casey has been working with us for years now. We were reminiscing yesterday about some projects that we’ve done together and she has such a creative eye and has such unique ideas that we’ve really been able to exert our creativity over the past couple of years with her projects. So you know, just having someone like her on our platform, let’s us to be able to do some really cool things together and that’s pretty much what all this is really about. So it’s great to have people like Casey on our platform that we get to work with all the time.
AD: I love hearing this and also, I mean I know we don’t have an actual paint contractor on this phone call but I love hearing that what I think, what I think is happening here through this relationship management is that the contractors working with you on your platform are able to also streamline their process and smooth out some of the tension that comes from working with designers and/or individual clients on their own.
So everybody’s job is sort of made a little bit more easier to manage which allows everybody to take more joy in what they’re doing and
CDB: Yeah, absolutely.
AD: More care and I’ve always been so, this is my soapbox, but I’ve always been so, I don’t know, protective and frustrated for contractors who get a bad rep. They’re always expected to estimate jobs where they don’t have enough information; they don’t have all the details. They’re expected to deliver stuff they’ve never done before, for a price that they’ve committed to and they don’t exactly know how much it’s gonna take.
They work with people who are instantly mistrustful and assume that they’re somehow not gonna do a good job and it’s just a really tense relationship. I don’t think it needs to be that way. So I’m so happy to hear that this relationship sounds like it’s benefitting, it’s mutually beneficial all the way around.
MS: Yeah, absolutely, you know, we always say, at the Paintzen office, we have our customers, but our painters and the contractors are our customers as well, right? We need to make sure that we’re doing right by everyone and providing everyone with a seamless experience. You know, we’re not here to provide an excellent experience for the customer and then have a stressful one for the painters and the wallpaper installers. So we needed to make sure that it’s equal for everyone and you know, we do have some trade partners who just love some of our contractors and they always request them and they have really wonderful working relationships together.
And it makes things that much easier and so much more… It is generally like, makes work much more fun, right? Like oh, you know, they’re having the same guy install the wallpaper for all your projects. They have a great rapport, so it really does come full circle once you get things flowing.
AD: Yeah, I love this. So now, I do wanna talk about your average DIYer and homeowner. I have a background doing a lot of DIY home improvement, makeover television shows and the first thing in those makeovers is they always hand the homeowners a bucket of paint and some rollers and say, okay, you know, get this done overnight and we’ll see you back here tomorrow.
And I cringe so hard when that happens because I know that painting can be easy and you can do it well if you’ve done it before. But if you really have no experience, you can’t expect to do a great job on a DIY project the first time. It takes planning, preparation, and a fair amount of skill and technique and I’m not in any way trying to discourage homeowners from doing their own paint job.
But what I am trying to be is honest about what your expectations should be. If this is the first time you’ve ever painted, you should not expect to get it done in one day and with really great, crisp, cut in lines and really smooth even coverage. Like all that stuff is the mark of a professional. Meghan, I wonder if you have some tips for how your average non-designer, homeowner, renter or DIYer can approach a paint or wallpaper project with a better chance of success and pleasure in the process?
MS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, what we always say to those kind of question is, you really need to understand you’re, you’re making sure you’re realizing what the full extent of the prep is needed before you begin. That’s key for us. Whether it’s additional priming, necessary repairs that need to be made, determining if your walls are even painted in latex paint. Like a lot of older homes, a lot of older apartments, they’re covered in oil based paint. You can’t paint over that with latex, you have to sand, you have to oil prime that and then paint it over.
Or use oil based paint, which is not the best to use, you know, health-wise. So figuring out the space that you’re working with is absolutely key. You know, if you have -
AD: Sister, prep is so important!
MS: Yes, we’ve had people come to us where they saw a really awesome look on Pinterest where the trim and the doors were black and these walls were stark white and it looked so sophisticated and so awesome, but their existing condition of the walls, they weren’t straight. So they taped it off, they took the tape off and then you have the black trim is like all squiggly, it’s all bumpy at the bottom.
And it looks amateur, but you have to really understand the space that you’re working with and what you can actually do. Same thing with wallpaper right? If you’re a newbie at this, I would suggest your first time using something that doesn’t have a pattern. So go with grass cloth, right, there’s no repeat pattern, you don’t have to worry about matching up your cut lines as much and don’t try to wallpaper a space that’s super sophisticated or very intricate.
So people may think that it may be easier to wallpaper a smaller space because it’s less wall space, but think about, you’re in a cramped room, so think about a powder room for example. You’re in a cramped room, there’s only so much room, you have to work around your doors, you have to work around your windows and there’s only so much room for error. It’s actually a lot harder than it would be to install paper on a plain 10x10 wall because you have the freedom and things like that.
Make sure you’re using the proper kind of paper for the space. So let’s say you have, we’ve seen this before as well, let’s say the existing walls are a bright white and you’re installing a paper that’s black or a very dark color, it’s a little bit patterned and, you think hey, I should be able to paper right over this and you should be able to. But what we see is, you install that paper and then you see that stark white paint coming right through it, right through the seam lines and then what you should have done is you should have painted that wall first in a color that matches the paper.
It’s all these little things you would never think to think about, but my example, my truth and what I’d say to my customers is, really think about the space that you’re in and if there’s any complexities to it, you need to do your research and make sure you’re attacking it the easiest way possible because you don’t wanna do all this work, have it come out terrible or spend most of your time going back and forth to the hardware store to get more supplies.
So you just wanna make sure that you are fully prepared to take on what you need to have done, have everything ahead of time, have your supplies and then it should be a lot easier for you to complete that work.
AD: I love everything that you just said and it’s so true. And also, so many times, and I have respect for this, but so many times DIYers and homeowners, they just don’t know what they don’t know, right? They don’t know what to look for in terms of prepping the walls. They don’t know that the white wall is gonna peak through those seams if those seams aren’t perfect. They don’t realize that trying to manoeuvre wallpaper in a tiny space and cut around windows is gonna be a lot more difficult than a big, plain living room wall let’s say. That’s the thing, trade professionals, we learn by doing, so we’ve learned all of this from actually making those mistakes in the field. So one of the things, I actually like to recommend is if you’re afraid to try something, then hire a professional first and be there. Like watch how they do, pick up, observe what they’re doing. You’ll see technique, you’ll see how people cut in, you’ll see how they prep a space, you’ll see what they think about ahead of time. Ask questions. Be part of the process. Learn from them and then tackle it on your own. Because then you’ll have a lot more confidence in your own understanding of the project and it makes everybody enjoy it a lot more. But as I understand, small jobs are cool with you too, right? So if I’m just like, I wanna try wallpaper, but I don’t wanna do it myself, can I just hire somebody to do one wall of wallpaper?
MS: Yeah, absolutely, so you know, we can certainly do accent walls of wallpaper. We wanna be able to make sure that we’re providing our contractors with fair products and really utilizing our team the best of its ability. So we do, I wouldn’t wanna call it a minimum, but we typically take on jobs that are either full rooms and more. But for wallpaper we’ll certainly do an accent wall or we’ll do a powder room, a smaller space, that’s fine with us.
AD: Cool. So Casey, what what advice do you have for people who might be looking to do a light refresh on their space? Nothing too involved, but definitely wanna give it, just some freshness and new life?
CDB: Yeah, no, I think in some spaces that’s someone’s been living in for a bit, a lot of buildings do allow like every four years to get a paint refresh. So sometimes in rental apartments a client is, we’re doing furniture and they’re not so interested in painting. I always ask and say like when is the last time you had your space painted because in a lot of rentals you do have the ability to have it painted every so often. And they’ll do like the typical [0.40.00] apartment paint just like a beige, like an off white.
But if you purchase the paint, they can do the work for you. So in situations like that, that’s like a quick fix to kind of improve and freshen up the space. I feel like fresh paint has just a world of difference.
AD: It makes all the walls clean again too.
CDB: Yeah.
MS: Yeah.
CDB: Yeah, it just feels just so much fresher, yeah. And we just did a new space where we repainted the walls a brighter shade of white and we painted both the bedrooms, one bedroom was wallpapered but with a custom mural, like a kids room and then we have the bedroom is a grass, sorry, the master bedroom has a cork with a geometric pattern on it and like a light grey. And then we painted all the doors like a charcoal dark grey and I think painting the doors too is something that’s like underrated, but we do that often because I think it just adds like a more dramatic definition and just makes it look more, just bolder and richer. Even if the walls are lighter, so it’s like a nice balance.
AD: I totally agree with that and doors though are kind of a special beast if they have any sort of detail or relief or molding, they need to be painted with care because I hate brush strokes. [Laughs]
CDB: No, 100%, yeah. And too with like wallpaper, just fun accents in like laundry rooms, closets, there’s just little things that you can do that add this other element of fun in these smaller spaces. I think before, I didn’t mention, but kids rooms too, a lot of times we use more neutral or two-tone paper, which is like a white base with a color as like the accent, whether it’s shapes or splatters or something fun and we can do the whole room in it or the ceiling. But it also too, kids rooms have so much stuff in them already, so you don’t want the wall coverings to compete with that.
AD: Right, right, so Meghan, what advice do you have for executing some of these ideas that Casey just shared with us, with the most amount of efficacy, efficiency and honestly joy. It should be fun.
MS: Yeah, absolutely so you know, it goes back to prep, but also just understanding any kind of scheduling or restrictions that you may have. As well as utilizing certain resources. So you know, if you’re not right away, make sure you’re consulting a color consultant right, to make sure that you’re choosing the right color. There’s nothing worse than doing all this work and you’re half painting a room and you’re like, I hate this color.
So make sure you’re asking advice and utilizing swatches, make sure you’re looking at it at certain times of day. It’s incredible how, depending on the wall it is, what walls on, the type of light you’re in, the color can look completely different. It can be bright as day one day and then it’s gloomy, it looks completely different. You change the light bulbs, that affects it too.
So just make sure that when you’re planning, just make sure you are thinking of every scenario possible to make sure you’re picking the right color, so it looks great year round. And when it comes to budgetary items, if you want to just do some rooms first, you know, use the rooms that you’re going to be mostly in, right? So that’s the kitchen, the living room, take advantage of doing the common spaces first, that’s what you’re gonna see the most.
And it’ll get you really amped up to do the rest of the home. And when it comes to wallpaper, I think people are a little bit surprised sometimes how expensive wallpaper can be. So you know, if that’s making sure that you’re using a wallpaper that’s within your budget or start out with an accent wall, don’t do the whole space. An accent wall still packs that punch as well.
We’re just really planning and making sure that you’re thinking of all of your scenarios and making sure that you are doing this within a timeline that works for you because you know, as we kind of delve into this whole conversation, it’s a lot of work. So you don’t want to bite off more than you can chew, so make sure that you are actively planning to make sure that you’re getting things done within a timeline that works for you and you’re not putting in too much effort that you’re overwhelmed.
AD: Right, I mean what I’ve seen so often too is that people rush into a project because they’re super excited to see the results and so they get a little impatient, but then halfway through the project, they realize it’s all falling apart. Like the wallpaper is not going up how they thought it would, the paints going on gloppy [0.45.00] and they don’t know how to correct [laughs] and I just feel like oh, I wish, I wish you had just done a little bit more planning, a little bit more preparation and you would have, I don’t know, you would have felt a lot more confident about course correcting, yeah.
Well, this has all been really fun and enormously informative and it sounds like just Paintzen is offering just an amazing, fantastic tool for both the trade and the consumer to help manage these jobs and actually access the joy of paint and wallpaper and the power of transforming their space in a way that’s, I don’t know, easy and fun.
Well, Casey, we’d love to learn more about your work and see images of your projects. Where can we follow you on the web and social media?
CDB: You can find me on Instagram it’s @caseydebois and the website is www.deboisdesign.com.
AD: Awesome and Meghan, how can we keep track of Paintzen and maybe utilize your services if we’re in the mood for paint and wallpaper?
MS: Yeah, absolutely, our team created a landing page just for Clever customers. So you can go to www.paintzen.com/clever. Then you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn with our handle @paintzen or if you’re looking to chat with someone live on my team, you can call us at 8553364389. Or email us at trade@paintzen.com.
AD: That’s awesome and we’ll include all that information in the show notes too, so if you didn’t have a pencil, that information will be available. Thank you so much for talking to us.
MS: Thank you guys, it was great.
Thank you to Paintzen for sponsoring this episode:
Paintzen is offering remote quoting, an online visualizer color tool & a free swatch program to help you kickstart that paint job you've been putting off. Save 10% using code CLEVER & designers earn 10% on booked projects - sign up at paintzen.com/clever
Casey DeBois
Meghan Stewart
Clever is produced by 2VDE Media. Thanks to Rich Stroffolino for editing this episode.
Music in this episode courtesy of El Ten Eleven—hear more on Bandcamp.
Shoutout to Jenny Rask for designing the Clever logo.
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