Ep. 149: Creative Leader Brian Rice

Designer Brian Rice currently serves as the Chief Brand and Design Officer for 3M. A self-identified “hybrid coast kid”, Brian was born in South Jersey and grew up in central Florida. A child of divorce, he acquired a greater appreciation for the different perspectives, culture, and environments he was exposed to from an early age. A curious student, he started down the engineering path but quickly realized that wasn’t the right fit, and switched to design. After college, he has worked for iconic brands such as Procter & Gamble, The Coca-Cola Company, Georgia Pacific and Bristol Myers-Squibb. He understands design as an essential connective tissue, a powerful tool to create space for artistic expression and to embrace greater diversity and inclusion. Brian knows that if we use design as a force for good, we can not only move in the direction of justice, but we can create compelling, creative products for consumers worldwide.

Read the episode transcript here.

---

Read the Transcript

Brian Rice: I’m Brian Rice and I am the chief brand and design officer for the 3M company. I am based here in Atlanta, Georgia, for the short term, but will slowly migrate my way up to St Paul where our headquarters is. What I do is, I lead our global brand in design capability across the enterprise and the why I do it is because I’m passionate about the role that brands play in design for that matter, in driving business growth.

AD: Well, I am excited to hear all about that, but before we get to what you’re doing now, I always love to go back to the beginning and understand how you got to be who you are now. So can you talk to me about the formative years and paint the picture of your childhood for me?

BR: I’m a bit of a hybrid coast kid, I guess. I was born in South Jersey, but grew up in central Florida, Orlando. I’m a bit of a product of a divorce insomuch that when my parents separated, she wanted to go as far as she could away [laughter] from the situation that she was in. But I say that with a smile, and I’ll tell you why. I think experiencing those two worlds and that situation certainly made me into the person I am today, right, a greater appreciation for two different types of environment, right, different kinds of people and nothing could be more different than South Jersey beaches and the entertainment world of Orlando, Florida. And so it was a really amazing kind of experience growing up, my brother and I and my mom. But certainly kind of set me on the path that I think, looking back on it, that I’m on now. 

AD: And how so, that hybrid experience, obviously you get to juxtapose the differences and the similarities, I’m sure, if your parents, with a smile on your face, if they wanted to get as far away from each other as they possibly could, I’m sure there were two different philosophies or perspectives coming from your parents. How do you feel like you synthesized or synergized all of that into your one person, your one Brian Rice? 

BR: Yeah, I think it opened up the world, right, that there was more to life than any given situation. So you know, those summers spent with my dad, walking on the boardwalk in Atlantic City and seeing the sights and seeing all of the different ways that people live and thrive and do what they do, being able to see all of that it’s like, okay, that’s different, right? But yet, being able to kind of live in Orlando under the lights of the entertainment and tourism industry, you got to see that world, right? 

Being able to experience two different climates, two different cultures, two different worlds, if you will was probably kind of, looking back on it, just not an opportunity many people get. And so it’s that reframe of, yeah, this could be a pretty bad situation that away from my dad, away from my mom, that sort of thing, but I think my brother and I tried to use it to our advantage. We could bring some East Coast down south [laughs] right, and a little of the south, right, kind of up north. 

And so it had a profound effect on just how I thought about things and how I experienced things and really knowing that, yeah, there’s another way to do X or there’s another way to do Y. So certainly gave me that broader perspective. 

AD: Gosh, that’s such an important thing, I think, in our formative years to just kind of know from the beginning that there’s always another way to do things and they don’t necessarily have to stay the way they are right now. And so I’m kind of curious how this evolved in your [0.05.00] teenage years. I just know from my personal experience, my parents aren’t divorced, but from my friends, you know, even if their parents lived in the same city, they were kind of shuttled back and forth and in the teenage years it got kind of difficult for them to split their lives like that. I’m wondering if this same kind of wonder and excitement that you had in experiencing both places stayed as you kind of grew into your young adult self and started manifesting your own creativity and your own expression and your own identity? 

BR: I think it did. I think you said a little bit, it’s that notion or that idea of hope that there’s something else, right? And so I think growing up, I kind of knew that there was something else beyond the neighborhood that I lived in, the block that I lived on, right, the things that I did. And so it was always, where my curiosity came from at an early age. So that notion of like what if, or how come or why, right? Those were always the questions that were playing in my head, you know, as a teenager, right, and just knowing, living with a single parent, a single mom and trying to make ends meet. 

I even thought about, okay, I know I want to go to college, but how am I going to get there, what are all the different ways that I could possibly do it knowing that maybe cash was not the easiest way.

AD: Sure, so you start sort of looking at all the options and clues and leads that you can pull -

BR: Exactly, most of my friends would probably tell me I’m lying, but I’m pretty quiet as a person just in general [laughter], even though I got to say right? I’m pretty quiet, but all of this was happening in my head, these conversations, right? Okay, I could do this or I could do that, all of these conversations, kind of taking it in and observing and doing all of those things while I’m trying to figure out, okay, how can I just get to the next right answer, or get to the next right thing. Just again, taking that family situation that was really out of my control and figuring out how to make the best of it, right. And I think that’s how it’s kind of provoked me to continually think about, what are all the different options that we can think through. It’s that eternal optimism, I guess, is probably the best way to describe it. 

AD: Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say, what do you attribute being wired for optimism to, because I don’t know if everybody is born that way, but you certainly seem to able to access it within yourself from the get. 

BR: Yeah, I think part of it, and I’ll be honest, I mean it wasn’t always the case all the time, right? 

AD: That’s good, that means you’re human. [Laughter]

BR: Yes, that’s right, but it always felt better than the pessimistic side. And so just kind of thinking about what’s possible, always just brought some internal joy, right? And I think that’s kind of what fuelled my creative side of my being. I did well in grade school and high school and when I introduced myself to new folks, it’s like I’m equally left brain/right brain. Straight A student, but could create with the best of them. I always had that evenly yoked between both places because I actually went to college on an academic scholarship, it wasn’t a creative [laughs] scholarship.  And so I think all of my upbringings and all of that experience kind of said to me, I’ve got to think through a number of different options because I can’t run that fast right? I can’t do this that good and so I need to have a couple of backup plans so that I can get to where I’m trying to go.

AD: I think that’s such a magic combination is being able to think analytically and creatively and to know how to speak both of those languages because sometimes it’s a matter of getting an idea across to somebody who needs to know that you’ve thought about it analytically in order for them to really hear you, or vice versa.

BR: It requires you, or I think it requires sometimes to hold the contradiction, right? And so I think it’s kind of taught me to hold those in balance, right? 

AD: Yes and you know, when you just said that, I got this really vivid image of holding that contradiction also gives you the power to reverse engineer from both sides back towards the middle or towards the other side. 

BR: Absolutely!

AD: So I have a question that’s sort of personal, coming from my experience. I’ve done a little bit of work in the Orlando area and you mentioned Orlando and Atlantic City and they’re both hubs for tourism, and I’m wondering, do you recognize any impact that seeing the sort of transience of tourism or the migrations of people may have imprinted on you? Because both of those cities would have had a lot of that kind of activity. 

BR: Oh, for sure, you definitely notice the differences, right? You notice that there are different kinds of people and I think growing up in Orlando, because I did grade school and high school in Orlando, really diverse, right? Just you would have people in classroom, all kinds of races, right? From being able to speak English to no one being, English being a second or third language, right? And so you definitely got to see that and so you don’t think about those things until you’re much older and much greyer and all of that, where you kind of think, oh, that was pretty cool that I had a friend in elementary school that spoke Russian. [Laughs]

You don’t think about the gift of that level of diversity. And just likewise, I think also it’s kind of, as I think back on it, is where I had my first, started feeling in love with brands, right? And so you kind of see the entertainment and tourism and the attraction in all of those things, even in both places. You could actually see that, see how they come to life. It’s like, oh wow, I wonder who created that? I wonder why they did it like that. Why did they choose those colors, like it’s all of those why kind of questions that used to fascinate me. 

AD: So, is that where you sort of got interested in graphic design and how did you find your way to studying graphic design at Florida A&M.

BR: Yeah, that was all of an accident, to be quite honest with you. I thought that I was gonna go to school to be an engineer and of course that’s what I told my mom I’m going to do, I got a full ride, all of that kind of good stuff. And my first two semesters of college, they start to give you a taste of the major - and I didn’t like that taste! 

AD: [Laughs] You’re like, nah, that doesn’t taste good. 

BR: No, I don’t think this is it, right? I’ll stick in a pin that right? So growing up in an African American household, my mother really gave me the choice, you can be a doctor, a lawyer, right, a teacher, all of these respectable careers - and I think maybe engineering was in there. I knew very little about design going into college, even though I was doing it. And so all we knew was the starving artist in the park. And so for me to say, “Hey, I want to go to college and be a designer,” I’d probably have gotten kicked out. And so I figured, engineering, back to that left brain thing, and talking to a guidance counsellor, you’ll be a great engineer and all of those things, I kind of leaned into it. Get to college, like oh, not so much, I don’t think that’s for me. I talked to my freshman counsellor on campus and go through the usual, what do you like to do? If you didn’t get paid for it, what would you do, type of stuff. 

And I told her about some of the stuff I used to do in grade school and she’s like, you know, you need to go down and check with the design department. At that time it was called Graphic Design. And so I went down there and I fell in love. I was like, oh my gosh, this is so me, right? I’m staring at these Macs and there’s a press room down the hall and it’s like, you know, a lot of activity. And I see all of this great creative on the wall and then that’s literally how I got into it and hadn’t looked back. 

AD: That is a wonderful story and one I’ve heard from a lot of different people too. The parental dissuasion of the creative arts is you know, that’s an epidemic. But the other thing is so many people just don’t really know that design is an option that you can study academically until they stumble across it in college. But then when they find it, they find their people, they find the kind of energy and activity, like you said, that feels so good to them that it just clicks. 

BR: Right. 

AD: Okay, how did you convince your mom that this was gonna be okay?  [Laughter] Because clearly you’re doing all right for yourself, so it worked out. 

BR: Well, I tell you, the rest of that story, so Brian decides he’s going to go change his major, but he’s not gonna tell his mom! And so because I was a pretty good student my mother very seldom would ask me for my report card. Like she would rarely say, “How are your grades?” Rarely. I’m in my third year and she says, “How are your grades?” I kind of look up [laughter] and then she says, “Well, let me see.” Of course I say they’re great, you know, and she says, “Well, let me see.” And so I go pull out some grades for her to see, which is the transcript. God bless her soul, she says to me, she says, “You know, I’d never gone to college, but I have a feeling color theory and typography one or two is not engineering.” [Laughs]

AD: Oh, you got found out!

BR: And so she sees all of these classes, art history, art, you know, all of these design, that have nothing to do with engineering. 

AD: [Laughs] But you got As on all of them, right? 

BR: I got As in all of them, right, and so then I’m fessing up because she can’t, she couldn’t see the career path. I don’t think it’s parents fault that they don’t know right?

AD: No. 

BR: It’s not their fault. She’s just saying, I want you to be successful, these are the kinds of careers that the people I know are successful and so she pointed you where, you know, what, she pointed me where she knew, right?

AD: No, I think you’re right; it’s a greater PR problem within design we have to solve. 

BR: Absolutely, so she was doing, again, what heightened my chances of success and I think not until I graduated, right, and I got my first job and so when she realized the first job that I got, that’s when she said, oh, there might be something more to this. No matter how much I explained what designers do and all of that, it’s like, yeah, it still is kind of, sounds a little wishy-washy to me. 

AD: A little pipe dreamish. 

BR: That’s right, that’s right, until you bring home a check for it, until I can actually kind of ‘see it’ it’s just art? 

AD: So what was that first job that convinced your mom?

BR: Well, first job was Procter& Gamble up in Cincinnati. 

AD: Oh, that’s legit! No wonder. 

BR: That’s kinda legit. 

AD: Yeah. 

BR: And so, and what made it even more legit is when I received the offer letter to come and I showed her, you know, hey, this is what I’m going to be doing, these are the brands they want me to work on, which she was kind of familiar with. And then she saw the salary. And I got to tell you, it’s probably one of the few times that I just saw her ball. She just was in tears. 

AD: I feel for, as a mother who just really wants for her children to be okay, like seeing that salary gave her a sense of relief, I’m sure. 

BR: Yes, not only relief, but to put it in perspective, right, in so much she’s like, do you know how much this is? I’m like, no [laughter]. And so she put it in perspective by showing me her pay check. So this is a woman that raised, two boys on her own and said look at this, and look at this, it’s pretty deep. 

AD: That is, wow. Wow, talk about, oh my gosh, that must have done so many things for you in the moment too in terms of -

BR: Oh, sure. 

AD: Validating your trajectory but also assuming a tremendous responsibility -

BR: Absolutely and I think it, it’s kind of, it’s one of those moments where you just kind of like, okay, I think I’m doing something right. I think I’m doing something right because you never really know, right? 

AD: No [laughs], you never know until hindsight.

BR: Yeah, exactly right, and so you know, it’s kind of like the next right answer and so that was the right answer at that time. I fly up to Cincinnati and kind of first time in Ohio, first time in Cincinnati, kind of playing the corporate game, if you will. 

AD: Yeah, well, how’d the Midwest treat you? I was born and raised in the Midwest, so we’re welcoming people. 

BR: Sure, it was great; I mean it was a great, great opportunity for me straight out of school. I was a bit of a guinea pig for the design department at P&G at the time because they had never really hired straight out of school for design. They had done it in all the other capabilities, and so it was a bit of, kind of one of the first employees to come in, right, out of school, and had a very rigorous kind of training program and so I got to kind of really learn it from the ground up. 

Really great first boss, some of your listeners know the value of first bosses, right? And so, she really just put me on a really good trajectory and it’s kind of all the stuff they don’t teach you in ‘design school.’ She was helping to kind of shape that part and I used to tease her. We’re really good friends, even today - She was my mom at work [laughter], helping me figure out that kind of stuff. And so it was a blast. Great, great brands, you know, across healthcare and beauty care and so it was a great ride. 

AD: It sounds like it, I feel your young enthusiasm coming from the microphone and it sounds like it really set you up. What kinds of pivotal moments or chapters transpired for you in terms of, I don’t know, your creative agency and your creative confidence? 

BR: It kind of helped you see it at a different level, right? Certainly as I was graduating college, I was thinking about, oh, go into an agency and I’ll work my way up the agency route, I’d done my research on that piece. The corporate piece was just totally different and so it wasn’t really talked about a lot during that time. Because corporate design groups, for the most part, were either kind of two or three person shops, kind of hidden, in the back and yeah, they worked on the creative stuff, but I think P&G had a pretty robust design department, even at that time. And so the importance of mentors inside the company, the importance of figuring out what you don’t know. 

The importance of understanding how business works and why it works the way it does, right? And then what’s the role that design can play in stewarding that or pushing that, right? Really, really were kind of lessons learned in terms of just how people think and operate and P&G are big on the consumer piece, it’s how people think. And this is why they do what they do and I can use design to maybe do something a little different, right? And so I can make them react a little different. So I think all of those foundational pieces were instilled in me at that time until I was recruited away to Coca-Cola. 

AD: Yeah, so you’ve had a pretty great ride all in all. I mean Coca-Cola, Bristol Myers Squibb, back to Procter & Gamble it looks like - Georgia Pacific before 3M and all the while you’ve had a chance to influence some of the most recognizable brands, Sprite, Tide, Brawny. I mean things that are more than household names. Tell us the highlights or the most meaningful or challenging or illuminating chapters in this work?

BR: Well, it’s funny, the three brands that you mentioned are probably the three brands that would be in my top five right now, top five brands that I really, really enjoyed working. And so even if I just start with Sprite, right, probably the coolest brand at the time in the Coca-Cola companies portfolio. I was the target; I was the Sprite kid, that whole notion of trusting your instincts and obeying your thirst -

AD: Yeah, I remember that. 

BR: Probably spoke to me, yeah. I’m dating myself a little it, right? But I was that kid. And so it didn’t even feel like work, it was kind of like; this is kind of what I did. And so you know, having that connection to a brand that you work on or finding a piece of that is truly important I think in what you do, why you do it, how you do it, that kind of thing, the level of passion, right? If I think about working on Tide, it’s the number one laundry detergent brand in the US. It is big, lots of eyes on it, it’s iconic. You have to create within a tighter box because there’s so many eyeballs on it? It’s all of those lessons of, okay, how can I be creative knowing that there’s a level of attention on this business and this brand that myself and team are responsible for, right? And even the extended team, agency partners, that kind of thing. And so loved working on the bigness of that brand during my second trip back to P&G. And then Brawny, right, paper towels. Everybody knows the brand, but it’s kind of the underdog brand. And so it’s like, ooh, working on underdogs, I know what it feels like to be an underdog. 

And so how do I kind of create some successes with this underdog brand that helps an organization that really didn’t understand what design was all about. They could kind of see it come to life in either packaging design or product design or even just a brand story, if you will. 

AD: Well, yeah, that communication piece is crucial. 

BR: Absolutely, it was one of the highlights of my career at Georgia Pacific that kind of helped that organization see, oh, you can win with design. It only takes a bit of attention and you can certainly compete, right, which is at the end of the day, what I think any brand would want, right? Is just the opportunity to compete in a space, no matter how big or how small, right? 

AD: Otherwise its existence isn’t justified. 

BR: That’s right. And so that’s certainly three of the top five that you pulled out that certainly I learned a lot from. 

AD: Well, now as the chief brand and design officer for 3M, I’m really curious what that work looks like? Our listeners maybe remember this about me, I’m a bit of a 3M groupie, I am [laughs], I know it’s weird. As a designer and maker I’ve seen just how relevant and pervasive 3M products and scientific innovations are to the built environment. But it’s typically not consumer facing. I mean the results of all 3Ms science usually go into products that are then made by somebody else and the 3M involvement isn’t necessarily trumpeted. So what does your work look like? Not only that, but 3M, I don’t know how many different divisions there are, but you as the galactic overlord [laughter] of all of these divisions have to wrangle how the brand experience is cohesive across… I mean, argh, it’s overwhelming, tell me about it. 

BR: It is, it is, certainly, and you know this, I’ve only been with the company a short while and certainly every day I’m learning something new? 

AD: That’s what I love about it!

BR: I heard an expression a couple of days ago, something like, and I probably won’t get this totally right, but something like ‘A 3M product is less than 3 meters away from you.’

AD: At any given time!

BR: At any given time!

AD: It’s true!

BR: And I got to thinking about that and so you start looking around your desk and beyond the obvious of consumer products, post-its, things like that, I got this iPhone here and okay, what’s helping that stick to the wall, right? And all of these products that we make, which was part of the attraction, is that you know, multilateral, multi business units, it’s not just local, it’s global, it’s global in a big way. It’s a very familiar brand that even pieces of it people don’t know. And so I think that will certainly be, you know, kind of the challenge, right, of shaping the experience. Like how can we help our customers and consumers [0.30.00] kind of see it, make it a bit more obvious. And maybe appreciate it, that’s it’s much more relevant and meaningful to the lives of our stakeholders and customers and consumers. And then value it. Can we get them to pay a premium for it or pay for it versus their alternatives? That really becomes a bit of our challenge in that it powers, our science and technology powers a lot of other things that people don’t know, the average consumer wouldn’t know. 

AD: I mean adhesives that hold skyscrapers and airplanes together -

BR: Or the space shuttle. 

AD: Yeah. 

BR: And even that, it’s amazing -

AD: The filtration in N95 masks or even the filtration in the space suits -

BR: You’re right.

AD: It’s just incredible, this desk I’m sitting at, I know that adhesives were used in the lamination, that abrasives were used in the construction of it, that filtration was used by the worker who made it. 

BR: Absolutely, and those are the kinds of stories, as I think about my role, is on the brand side, 3M company brand and the products that we make, that’s the piece that becomes part of our task, to figure out how to help people see it, help people appreciate it and value it. That’s, kind of that’s the piece, right? In a way that makes it relevant, right, because that’s great, but if it’s not relevant, then that’s problematic. And so how do we increase the relevance, which in turn will do all of those branding things that we know, build trust, build loyalty. 

AD: Forgive me, I’ve never held a corporate job, but I’ve often been really confused with the B2B versus B2C because I think of all those people in businesses, and I know there are also consumers. So aren’t they the same people?

BR: They are definitely the same people, but potentially different drivers behind the decision. And so an office manager who is buying product for the office, there’s a bit of, his or her bias in terms of one brand over the other. And so now, they’re buying it in bulk, they need it to store a certain way, they need it to do all of these other things which could be a bigger driver than what maybe you and I might buy in a store, right? But you’re right, we’re people first and so how do you appeal to that person in a way that kind of taps into their needs, their wants, their desires, given the context. 

AD: Well, and I also know, in my professional capacity, for instance, I know that the 3M respirators are the best and I have asthma, so then that means I want the 3M filters in my home system.

BR: It’s a halo effect between one over the other? And so certainly that becomes a bit of a dilemma. And then you got channel needs and all of that and so sometimes it’s a matter of just taking all of those needs and saying, okay, which ones are more meaningful over here, for this channel, this customer versus this channel and this customer? And ensuring that there are some things as it relates to brand governance, brand consistency, that the experience should be about the same, whether you’re in this channel or that channel, because that’s the equity? And so it’s really, really important to ensure that there is some alignment between the two, and that differs. That differs based on the brand and that sort of thing. 

AD: Is there something, a word or a descriptor that you would use to describe 3M in its entirety, the DNA of 3M?

BR: Ooh, that’s a good one. You know, science immediately came to mind, it’s just masterful at the science behind products and technology [0.35.00] we use every day. And so I think I’ve…. Yeah, go ahead? 

AD: I was just gonna say, I’ve toured the labs a few times and it’s just my most fascinating, wonderful experience. It’s like an amusement park for me and I appreciate the rigor that’s going into the development of all of these innovations. But one of the things that has just always blown me away is this culture of cross pollination. 

BR: Absolutely. 

AD: Creative application and technological advances - And so whatever that word is that sort of encompasses the scientific and the creative into one -

BR: That is the challenge. I don’t know that I’ve figured out what the one is -

AD: Right. 

BR: I do know that the role that design plays in all of that, it is one of connective tissues -

AD: Yes, yes!

BR: Because I do believe that as designers we pull all of that together -

AD: And pump it all with oxygen and fluids -

BR: Absolutely, absolutely, I was in a conversation earlier today and we were having a conversation about the spark or do we ignite or do we spur, what are those verbs, but they’re all verbs, which is great. In that we are sometimes that connective tissue that in its simplest form can help people see what they’re saying and then in much more craftsmanship or technical side, you know, like building it, making it, that piece, product design, pack, whatever it might be, UX, all of those things. 

And so I think we’re at a crossroads of where our organization can play a much more meaningful role in connecting all of that. And kind of being a clearing house or a hub to help teams better collaborate and to share ideas and really kind of be the source for the next generation of ideas and bringing our science, back to that science word. Back into things and helping it be more relevant to the customers and consumers we serve. 

AD: You have just come from a company where toilet paper was one of your brands [laughs] and now you’re at a company where N95 masks are part of the products that 3M manufactures. These are both things that got super catapulted into the public space with the pandemic [laughs] -

BR: Who would have thought bath tissue would have been the staple of choice [laughter] in your local grocery store, right? 

AD: Right.

BR: It was unbelievable to watch that. I’m sure one day it’ll be an amazing case study of human nature and what happens when, what happens when the first person jumps in the pool? [Laughs]

AD: Yeah. 

BR: It’s just amazing to kind of see and like you said, on the other side of this, of saving lives. Certainly improving them, but in some instances saving them, and so just knowing that you’re working for a company and brands and a business that is truly about that. That is a powerful reason to wake up in the morning. 

AD: Do you feel that? Do you feel that you’re in a calling right now? 

BR: Absolutely, absolutely. 

AD: I felt it; I felt it coming from you! [Laughs]

BR: I’ve said this to my team, I said, I’m not quite sure I know why I’m here, but I’m here and we’re gonna figure this out together. [Laughs] And I’ve also said, I don’t know if it’s for this job, it might be for something else, but I’m here and we’re gonna figure this out together. I do believe that there is a reason why paths cross. There’s a reason for it. I don’t believe it happens by accident. 

AD: It sounds to me like you also are open to that curiosity and optimism within you, keeps you open to figuring out, well, I’m gonna trust I’m supposed to be here and I’m gonna trust that curiosity and optimism are gonna lead me to what I need to know about this experience. 

BR: Yeah, absolutely. I think it also, it beats the alternative [laughs]. 

AD: Yeah. 

BR: It does beat the alternative of like why am I, why? 

AD: Yeah. [Laughs]

BR: So it’s back to that optimistic outlook that this is happening for a reason and I was meant to be a part of this team’s life and their lives, right? I’m excited about that. 

AD: I’m excited for you. Do you think that design driven leadership in general, and particularly at a company with 3Ms reputation and magnitude can be effective in terms of our greater cultural understanding of, and value of the arts and design? 

BR: Oh, I think so, for sure, right? And you know, I think the role that we play, if you think about what has happened in the last 12 months with this pandemic, the amount of ‘innovation’ and change, ‘unprecedented’ right, adapted, flexible, who other than designers are kind of used to that, kind of used to the flex, that can be a bit of the calm in the storm. To embrace high levels of ambiguity, to kind of listen to the data, but also feel what the intuition is telling you, right? 

AD: It’s true, we speak in unknowns. Unknowns, we’re comfortable with unknowns. 

BR: Yes, absolutely, and believe it or not, that can be comforting, that be comforting for those who are not used to that. My mother used to say, there’s a time and a place, there’s a time and a place when you need to rise to this occasion, for this need. And I think certainly the rule that our organization could play is pivotal in that, inside the company and outside the company. And I think this is, again, I think it’s a space that comes natural for, not just designers, but creative thinkers. 

AD: Right. 

BR: People who just happen to see it differently. 

AD: Well, and I think creative thinkers are in all, everyone, everyone has got the capacity to be a creative thinker if they just flex that muscle. 

BR: That’s right, that’s right, kind of dive into that grey or that ambiguity; it’s certainly what you want to do.

AD: So, I want to know a little bit about you personally Brian Rice. You sound like a lovely and fascinating person. So you’re in Atlanta, Georgia now and you’re gonna migrate to a new city, does that mean uprooting a family to bring with you? 

BR: I guess in all of this, is that my kids are about to be college age. I have one that’s a freshman in college; my son is a freshman at a local college here, Kennesaw State. My daughter, Kylie, she is a graduating senior this year, high school senior. And so my son caught the tail end of the pandemic, my daughter caught all of it, right, and still kind of going through it. In about, call it, eight months, we will be, I guess somewhat official empty nesters if the pandemic switches gears here. 

And so to your question of uprooting a family, certainly my wife and I we’ll see if the other two come along virtually, with college and things that are going on there. But we’re excited about it, excited about the new chapter in our lives, right? Being best friends, again, and kind of doing all of those things that we forgot about [laughs] -

AD: Yeah. 

BR: And so we’re both looking forward to it, meeting the organization, meeting my new city, things of that nature. So we’re pretty pumped about it. 

AD: Well, I’m excited for you and you know, Minneapolis, St Paul is, I think, a pretty magical area. I’ve got my own reasons, but I hope you get to go to Paisley Park at some point [laughs]. 

BR: Sure, oh yeah, sure, I’ve put that on the list [laughter]. 

AD: So, speaking of genius artistic expression, what’s the last, if I can just ask you, what’s the last active artistic expression that you witnessed that moved you to your core? 

BR: Ooh, you know, I’d be remiss if I didn’t reflect on this past summer and you know, the social unrest and the protests that were happening in the streets. As I think about your question, I think back to, as a guy that takes in imagery in visuals, and also as a designer, looking at not just the messages of the signs, or the voices, but how they were articulated. Several months back before I started with 3M, I went and visited Black Lives Matter Plaza in DC -

AD: Oh, wonderful. 

BR: Got to feel the place and kind of see it and much of the protest signs or shirts or what have you were kind of plastered around the areas of the Plaza. And you talk about artistic expression, again, not only the message but how it was executed and you can almost feel the energy in the words that were on the signs. Many of the protestors kind of left the signs up or left it around the space and it’s just, you know, it’s kind of one of those things to think about the energy, the passion, the unheard voices, the visual and verbal language that kind of covered the streetscape -

AD: And echoes. 

BR: It’s just unbelievable -

AD: It reverberates, yeah -

BR: Unbelievable. 

AD: With a soulfulness that feels generations and lives, you know, deep past lives and future lives. 

BR: Yes and just the authenticity, regardless of what side of the fence you’re on, you certainly appreciate someone who has a point of view and willing to share it. Even if we don’t agree with it or not, I think that’s what makes this democracy, this place what it is, is that we have the right to kind of do that and express that. Just to watch that artistic expression and even see my daughter, kind of take part, kind of watching her make her protest sign on the kitchen table, to watch her expression unfold? It almost brings chills when you think about that think about the importance of this moment at this time. And so yeah, that was the first one that immediately came to mind. 

AD: I’m really glad you shared that with me and you’re headed to the area where, the epicenter of the George Floyd uprisings. I didn’t see the aftermath myself personally, but a good friend of mine is from Minneapolis and went back home to… pay tribute, to be part of it, to just, I guess pay his respects and he said, he described the place where the murder took place and he said they had reclaimed it and made it so beautiful with murals and candles

BR: It was absolutely amazing, I did make sure that I saw it and it was just like, wow, right, the energy

AD: And he described that energy too and I think that that is so powerful to talk about that energy because that is the energy that can cleanse the trauma -

BR: That’s right, that’s right, I mean you could almost feel, like it was sacred, and it made me, when I went to see it, because I just had to see it right, there may have been 100, maybe 200 people, silent, just silent, you could just see people taking it in. You kind of think about the power of what you are seeing and so there’s a reason why there’s more nerves in your eyes than your mouth! But also our responsibility as creative types, of what we’re putting out in the world too. 

And so we have a tremendous amount of responsibility to make sure that what we’re doing is inclusive and that it represents diverse perspectives and that it’s done with a level of authenticity that even if you disagree, that at least you know it was, it came from a good place, right? And I think that’s incredibly important for designers and folks that are in this space, to be mindful of. 

AD: I totally agree and I also think that there’s a need to be also aware of that, the systems of oppression and systemic racism were designed and they can be redesigned -

BR: That’s right. 

AD: And so every choice, every little incremental action that we take needs to be in the direction of justice. 

BR: That’s right, I would agree. 

AD: If you could, with all that you are, all your skillsets and the sort of power that you have in your position and also just your wisdom that you’ve gained from experience, if you could magically open up one pathway to the younger generation, what would that be? 

BR: Ooh, pathways… truth, I think it’s hope that it is possible. It’s going to take some, sometimes blood, sweat and tears, but it’s possible. And so I think this notion of hope would be a pathway that if myself in my role, and people who see me in this role, provides a level of hope or the fact that they can see what they can be - that would be a magic door I would kick down [laughter] if I could. 

AD: Brian Rice, design action hero! [Laughter]

BR: Right, super-galactic something! 

AD: Yeah [laughter]. Okay so one more, just zeroing back in on you and this can be totally selfish if you want it to be - but what’s one thing you want for yourself, an accomplishment, an experience, something to witness, something in your lifetime all for you? I mean not that you wouldn’t share it, but you know, it can come from a self-centered place. 

BR: [Laughs] That’s tough for me. 

AD: That’s not your vibe? 

BR: Yeah, you know, it’s a tough question because I think if I can be a good father, a good husband, a great friend, that’s enough. 

AD: That’s pretty good, that’s a trifecta of awesome right there. 

BR: Yeah, when they’re at the pulpit [laughter] and they’re talking about Brian Rice, if I could get them to say those three things, I think I’m good, I think I’m good [laughter]. 

AD: Well, it sounds like you’re heading in that direction, hopefully they won’t get to the pulpit to talk about you for a very long time -

BR: A while [laughter] that’s right, that’s right. You tell them to stop, if you see it going down, it’s like stop, it’s not supposed to happen now. 

AD: Well, it has been a delight talking to you, thank you so much for sharing your story and your perspective - I loved it!

BR: I’ve enjoyed this, thank you so much. 

---

Many thanks to this episode’s sponsor:

Dunn-Edwards

The Dunn-Edwards Emerging Professionals Design Competition is calling all emerging professionals, currently enrolled students of architecture and interior design! This is the time to practice your developing skills in commercial and residential design categories and get rewarded. Two grand prize winners will each receive $3,000 cash. Beginner and advanced levels are encouraged to apply. Submit now through August 6 at emergingprofessionalsprogram.com to earn your bragging rights!

Brian loved “dress-up day” which was usually picture day at school. (4th grade at Richmond Heights Elementary School, Orlando, FL)

What is your earliest memory?

Laughter, while holding my mother’s hand.

How do you feel about democratic design? 

I’m a huge fan of it. It’s quite difficult to achieve (at times) because of the many competing interests. Companies like IKEA have designed against this philosophy since their founding and have created amazing products as a result.

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

“Simply, be yourself because everyone else is taken!”

How do you record your ideas?

I usually keep a notepad and pen next to my bed or close by. If I have a thought or an idea hits me, I often scribble it down. I’m still a hand-written note taker.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

Call me ‘ol school…but pen & paper is still one of my favorite tools for creativity, capturing thoughts or generating ideas.

What book is on your nightstand?

A Promised Land, by Barack Obama is the recent addition to the stack.

Why is authenticity in design important?

Authentic design reflects that which is real, original, and purposeful. I’ve always felt the story behind the intent is just as important as the result or impact. You’ll be able to hear or feel the authenticity in the solution.

Making the best of the pandemic. Rice Family porch portrait for charity, 2020.

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Hmmmm…that’s a tough one. South City Kitchen tends to be a go to favorite for out-of-town friends and family. But if you want some real soul food, the historic Paschal’s restaurant in Atlanta is a really good choice too.

What might we find on your desk right now?

A few books, family picture, notepad and pen, water, and of course, lots of Post-It® notes!

Who do you look up to and why?

John Lewis. I’ve always known of his work in civil rights, but as I learned more about his early childhood, his lifelong dedication to public service, his generosity, kindness and commitment to justice…he was the right man to “get into good trouble, necessary trouble!”

What’s your favorite project that you’ve done and why?

My favorite projects tend to be those where we are the ‘underdogs’ or behind. I enjoy “the chase” and determining how we can overcome obstacles or a challenge. Competition brings out the best in us all and makes for great design, products, and brands.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

Soundtrack to the movie The Photograph (various artists), Slow Down (Skip Marley feat H.E.R & Wale), Essence (Wizkid feat Tems), Summer 2020 (Jhene Aiko), and Black Kennedy (feat Common/August Greene).

One of Briann’s favorite volunteer activities is mentoring students at his alma mater, Florida A&M University in Tallahassee, FL.

Where can our listeners find you on the web and on social media?

Twitter: @brianrice02
Linkedin: Brian A. Rice

---

Clever is produced by 2VDE Media. Thanks to Rich Stroffolino for editing this episode.
Production assistance from Ilana Nevins and music by El Ten Eleven—hear more on Bandcamp.
Shoutout to Jenny Rask for designing the Clever logo.

Clever is a proud member of the Airwave Media podcast network. Visit airwavemedia.com to discover more great shows.

---

Keep Listening